***Official***Match #25- England vs Sri Lanka- October 26th-Bengaluru(D/N)#BottomDwellers

[Owzat]

This is why when many posters here say that bilateral series don’t matter , it is completely nonsense. It is these bilateral series which gives you readymade player for ICC tournaments.

I think bilateral series have limited use in preparation for a tournament, you don't play the same opponents in the same (home/away) conditions more than once in a row 99% of the time in a tournament. Too easy to get used to the opposition, the bowling, and there's little pressure, doesn't matter if you lose as you can win the next one, best of 3, best of 5, and whilst yes you do play eg 9 games in round robin but each game against different opponents, often not in England/home conditions

I doubt it is confidence or anything like that, England played a certain way and it worked, it isn't working in India and on top of that if the batting does put up a total eg 282/9 vs NZL, or face AFG and SAF and the bowling concedes 284 (gettable) and 399/7 (forgettable) respectively then the pressure is on the batsmen

in conditions somewhat alien they are trying to play the same way and not relaxed enough to play the conditions more because they don't even know if 280+ will be defendable with the bowlers on show. I mean 156 was hardly a demanding target, but still the lankans mowed it down in half the overs and lost only two wickets

noone is suggesting the bowlers could have won it, but they have shown little or no control and the batting is doing its best in the conditions. I think the best conclusion to draw is:

- wasn't the best of squads, this isn't in England, and outside of England the quicks are ineffective
- batting balance was lacking, you can't have 7-11s with Woakes, Ali, Curran, Willey and Rashid not even 9-11 sometimes
- batting strength wasn't what some thought it would be, England won their only game to date with the only match winning score(r)


People are blaming everything and anything, certainly the nonsense re it being the Tundra or lack of domestic 50 over cricket is right up there, England won the 2019 World Cup and the Tundra didn't exist then, nor was 50 over cricket dominant domestically, not that most England players spend much time playing domestic cricket nor are they "learning the ropes", the beeb "name the England 100 cap club" thing featured quite a few of this squad and noone forced them to a) not play the inexperienced squad members more or b) not pick more experienced players or indeed c) to pick laughable numbers of quicks for a World Cup in India!


will the Tundra be blamed for the next defeat down under, or indeed Test series in India?!? Same cricket skills apply in all formats, just applied differently, and top players can adapt, it isn't like the England squad haven't played for nine months

 

[Sunil1z]

@Owzat
Without playing sufficient number of bilateral series, you won’t know who are your best performing players , who are your poor performing players . And if you don’t win most of the bilateral series in a 4 year WC cycle, there is high chance your side is not going to win WC too because these players will perform poorly in most of the pressure games in group stage or knockout.

 

[Owzat]

it matters as much as teams and boards want to make it matter. Of course they matter a team coming into a World Cup with momentum and winning bilateral series and having their line up set will be better than a team who rests up players a lot in bilateral series and isn’t as sure about their line up months before a World Cup.

certainly helped the participants to be playing in the Asia Cup, location, mix of opponents whilst England played kiwis and Ireland at home, how did that work out....?!??!

(and yes, I appreciate that the only team England have beaten so far was Bangladesh, may yet prove the ONLY team full stop if they don't get their act together)

most concerning thing for me, and goes back to what I repeat re the squad, is you struggle to pick an XI from the squad looks balanced and that good

Livingstone - not great with the ball, but better than his batting return (31 runs from 4 knocks)
Willey - had a decent day, but 2/91 in the two games isn't great
Ali - 15 his HS, across only 2 knocks granted, done diddly with the ball
Atkinson - had no real chance given so little experience, 2/60 decent return but never likely to succeed
Curran - isn't a good enough bat or bowl to be in the team, bits n pieces player unless he ups his game considerably in the longer formats
Woakes - anyone not dozy must know outside England his bowling is more buffet than Buffy, and isn't so good a player of spin to make any consequential contributions with bat
Brook - 66 in a losing cause against Afghans, arguably lower pressure on him given all around failed so he could just flail and fail
Buttler - brilliant attacking batsman at his best, he isn't (at his best)
Root - capable of playing good ODI innings, too many 11 off 17s, 2 off 6s and 3 off 10s, needs to stand up, be counted more and be a match winner not an average preserver
Wood - poor ODI average with ball, picked on the theory of what he offers (but doesn't deliver)

there's 2/3 of the squad I could voice concerns over picking, only really Bairstow (127 runs), Topley (8 wickets), Stokes (not played enough), Rashid (6 wkts) and Malan (168 runs) 'excused' the treatment, although Bairstow as much because we know what he can do, and some, more than display, could make him 11 out of 15


that isn't all based on performance, or lack thereof, couldn't really have known Buttler would be so poor with bat, but wasn't hard to see that squad was a bit airy fairy for the location and not fit for purpose. Would a largely different set of players fared much better? Probably not, but reasons for picking most of the ones in the squad were reputation, what they can do in England and generally flimsy.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think England have picked their best players. Their best players just haven't been good enough in these conditions

 

[Silver Silva]

I feel England had their best squad available, but their biggest problem in my opinion is that they did not know what is their best XI in any match , and when you don't know what your best XI is, you come across as a team that is poorly prepared.

For example they didn't know that Reece Topley was their best bowler, otherwise he would have started vs New Zealand in the opening match , they didn't know who their best all rounder was ..Curran, Willey, Woakes, Livingstone , Moeen Ali all were chopped and changed for fun.

Atkinson and Brook were selected but they don't seem to have the trust of the leadership group, you add this uncertainty with the fact that their regular starters have flopped ,it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I think it's high time the ICC had a rethink about the merits of putting 2nd tier teams up against the likes of Afghanistan and Sri Lanka

It's just too demoralising for them.

Give them some regular games against teams like the Wagga Wagga 3rd XI or the Bogadilla Bushpigs to allow them to get their confidence back.

 

[DriveClub]

Read on Twitter/X that England has lost to SL for the 5th consecutive time in World cups. Not sure if true

 

[GIMH]

I think it's high time the ICC had a rethink about the merits of putting 2nd tier teams up against the likes of Afghanistan and Sri Lanka

It's just too demoralising for them.

Give them some regular games against teams like the Wagga Wagga 3rd XI or the Bogadilla Bushpigs to allow them to get their confidence back.

Great one this

 

[GIMH]

Read on Twitter/X that England has lost to SL for the 5th consecutive time in World cups. Not sure if true

It is true. A Sri Lankan colleague brought it up in work last week and when I traced back it made perfect sense. They beat us in a fairly close game in 19, and annihilated us in 11 and 15. I’ve blanked the others out, but.

 

[DriveClub]

It is true. A Sri Lankan colleague brought it up in work last week and when I traced back it made perfect sense. They beat us in a fairly close game in 19, and annihilated us in 11 and 15. I’ve blanked the others out, but.

Oh I remember in 07 there was a last ball thriller England lost. Bopara needed 4 off the last ball but got bowled off dilhara fernando. Good memories

 

[Prince EWS]

Oh I remember in 07 there was a last ball thriller England lost. Bopara needed 4 off the last ball but got bowled off dilhara fernando. Good memories

Real clash of the titans there.

 

[DriveClub]

Oh I remember in 07 there was a last ball thriller England lost. Bopara needed 4 off the last ball but got bowled off dilhara fernando. Good memories

Youtube

Commentary is comedy gold Old fart Ranjith thought Bopara had smashed it for 4 but instead was bowled

 

[DriveClub]

Real clash of the titans there.

I always wonder if Dilhara was playing these days how many free hits he'll be serving up. Was a no ball machine

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think it's high time the ICC had a rethink about the merits of putting 2nd tier teams up against the likes of Afghanistan and Sri Lanka

It's just too demoralising for them.

Give them some regular games against teams like the Wagga Wagga 3rd XI or the Bogadilla Bushpigs to allow them to get their confidence back.

You think your mum's team would be competitive at this level?

 

[Son Of Coco]

You think your mum's team would be competitive at this level?

They'd come 8th.


I was going to post something about your mum's coming first...but I am above such puerile humour. As you can see.

 

[centurymaker]

I don't think our record in ODIs has actually been great since our WC win, just nobody has cared.

Lost home and away to India. Lost home and away to Aus. Lost once, drew twice verses the Saffers.

Yeah, England were only good from 2016-2020.

They have lost a lot of games in the last 3 years. Thats why they were 5th in the ODI rankings before the wc, which is turning out to be a true reflection of where they stand since 2020.

 

[centurymaker]

Bilateral series do matter somewhat as they help you figure out your best players. The players too learn to deal with ODI pressure situations and others situations unique to ODI cricket. They also gain confidence through playing well in bilateral games and get a better idea of how to deal with certain opponents.

If you just rock up to a World Cup like England have, losing almost all the bilateral series in the last 3 years and always resting most of your players, then we shouldn't have expected a different result in the world cup.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Read on Twitter/X that England has lost to SL for the 5th consecutive time in World cups. Not sure if true

Not surprising at all.

I'm surprised England have beaten Sri Lanka in any World Cups since 1992 tbh.

I see England beat them in 1999 when both teams were dreadful and the conditions favoured the Poms and they didn't play in 2003 when SL would've destroyed them.

 

[FBU]

Under Mott Captain Butter played 24 ODIs and won 10.

 

[DriveClub]

Under Mott Captain Butter played 24 ODIs and won 10.

Does it come with toast?