Is Jacques Kallis the Most BoRing Cricketer in the History of Cricket?

[BazBall21]

He just got better at the end. But for most of his career he was a bit of a block-bash player. In the 2000s he still had a stacked line up around him and he was slow. In ODIs as well as tests. The only time when Kallis was burdened by a lack of competent batsman was the mid 90s and Cullinan, not Kallis, was SA's best batsman.

He did speed up when batting got easier but he was always a grinder.

 

[Krypto]

Why only his 100s? And why ignoring draws? 20 of his 100s came in draws. And no they were not all match-saving. This was with a team that had one of the best bowling attacks around too.

I gave the example that sticks out in my memory most earlier in the thread, 2006 Sydney Test. South Africa should have won, they dominated most of it, but were forced to declare twice for less than optimal scores (trying to force a result) because Kallis batted so slowly. He didn't adapt to game situations enough and turned wins into draws, and on that occasion into a loss. If he batted like Ponting, Lara or Tendulkar his team would have been better off, it's as simple as that.

I don't get it. He was one of the greatest Test cricketers ever. Easily. Why people try so hard to invalidate one of his only limitations is beyond me.

edit: And to be clear, repeating myself here, it's only in comparison to the other best players of his time that it's even noticeable. No one is saying "Kallis wasn't a great batsman because he batted too slowly". It's purely in comparison with the very, very best

100s are indicating when the batsman does what he is suppose to do and that is one of the few places you can actually give a representation . Especially when looking at impact of what the player means in comparisons to results ,When Kallis did well we didn't lose . Thus 1 out of 45 sticks in your mind when he performed and didn't save a match , he was held to a comparison even every other great was not and still then what he achieved speaks volumes . He was not boring he was unbelievable and under appreciated .


Comparing to whom ? Ponting is out as he played as a number 3 and averaged 40 as a number 4 for in the 20 odd inning he wasn't top order . Lara and Tendulkar should be the comparison . However Lara averaged 10 less than Kallis with a very high strike rate and Tendulkar averaged 54 which is 7 less than Kallis and 5 more on strike rate as a number 4 . Thus lets do this exercise . Tendulkar scored 44 100s and Lara 24 so this compares decently to Kallis 35 at number 4 . Tendulkar lost 14 tests where he scored a 100 and in comparison Lara lost 12 . Reminder Kallis only lost 3 . So what measurement is being used to state these are better than Kallis , a 60 strike rate for Lara at a lower average or Tendulkar 6 more 100s over 49 more innings . For me it is impact , Kallis was more often than not the savior of the SA test team . And with the averages he posses and longevity this talks to why that south african team was so successful .

Also the series referred to is it 2005 game where he scored 111 and 50 and is only one of 3 test matches SA ever lost where he scored a 100 ? This is selective memory only remembering the few bad . And our recollection is completely different as we were completely outplayed that series by Australia in home conditions and Kallis being the only batsman doing anything of worth . This is also shown in stats with that series where Kallis was the top scoring South African however completely outclassed by the 4 Aus top order , furthermore Clark taking 20 wickets in that series speaks volumes .

I have multiple examples of where Kallis was the reason we didn't lose but drew , where in all manner we should have lost , stating the draw factor , what if it was 20 losses like most other batsman ?

This always grinds me that there isnt emphasis on batting position as this has a huge affect , you cannot compare 1 to 3 to 4 to 6 .

 

[Krypto]

Anyway i will look later on the examples and replies , this is taking away from watching another all time SA great in action currently and im missing a little bit more than i should .

 

[StephenZA]

Anyway i will look later on the examples and replies , this is taking away from watching another all time SA great in action currently and im missing a little bit more than i should .

Having been in this fight too many times... my advice is don't bother. Its not worth the angst. Trying to explain what Kallis did for SA cricket and why he did it the way he did it is not something many seem to be able to understand.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The problem is you guys are too emotionally involved. You can't accept anything you perceive as even the slightest criticism. Someone says "Kallis wasn't absolutely the undisputed best batsman" and what you hear is "Kallis wasn't good and was bad for South Africa"

 

[Krypto]

The problem is you guys are too emotionally involved. You can't accept anything you perceive as even the slightest criticism. Someone says "Kallis wasn't absolutely the undisputed best batsman" and what you hear is "Kallis wasn't good and was bad for South Africa"

Agreed and this is true 100% true . The same argument can be made for those stated as greater or better .

If you say Shane Warne was a cheat or compare Muralitharan to bowlers who threw not bowled there will be a whole fan base up in arms .

This is even more true when it comes to batsman , if i were to state Bradman is overrated as he was the only professional in a era of amateurs and only played in the same conditions or that Tendulkar and Lara batted for their stats and not their team or put Sangakkara on a list of most overrated cricketers . Any of these instances will be highly volatile . Opinions not facts that take away from a legacy is obviously going to be met with resistance ?

Why not for Kallis , why is it expectable to have this debate about someone who when performing won matches and was in his era the reason for a nations dominance to be called boring? What is the difference ?

It is sad to see that there are so few for the argument that Kallis was exceptional and absolute entertainment and class and not boring then the alternative .

 

[trundler]

The problem is you guys are too emotionally involved. You can't accept anything you perceive as even the slightest criticism. Someone says "Kallis wasn't absolutely the undisputed best batsman" and what you hear is "Kallis wasn't good and was bad for South Africa"

The Kallis SR cope is a lot like claiming Ponting never played in India during his prime

 

[Coronis]

Ponting scored 30 tons when his team won ergo he is better than Kallis, Tendulkar and Lara. Lara scored 14 tons in losses, he was clearly playing for himself to the detriment of his team.

 

[Krypto]

Ponting scored 30 tons when his team won ergo he is better than Kallis, Tendulkar and Lara. Lara scored 14 tons in losses, he was clearly playing for himself to the detriment of his team.

You kinda proving my point , that comment was in complete jest however already getting hate . Why is it different for Kallis ?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Agreed and this is true 100% true . The same argument can be made for those stated as greater or better .

If you say Shane Warne was a cheat or compare Muralitharan to bowlers who threw not bowled there will be a whole fan base up in arms .

This is even more true when it comes to batsman , if i were to state Bradman is overrated as he was the only professional in a era of amateurs and only played in the same conditions or that Tendulkar and Lara batted for their stats and not their team or put Sangakkara on a list of most overrated cricketers . Any of these instances will be highly volatile . Opinions not facts that take away from a legacy is obviously going to be met with resistance ?

Why not for Kallis , why is it expectable to have this debate about someone who when performing won matches and was in his era the reason for a nations dominance to be called boring? What is the difference ?

It is sad to see that there are so few for the argument that Kallis was exceptional and absolute entertainment and class and not boring then the alternative .

You didn't realise this whole "Kallis boring" thing is an obvious troll job? Brah

The Kallis SR cope is a lot like claiming Ponting never played in India during his prime

You know I was literally thinking this as I was writing my previous post haha

Still think there's a bit of truth to it though

 

[Coronis]

You kinda proving my point , that comment was in complete jest however already getting hate . Why is it different for Kallis ?

I’m pointing out the uselessness of that stat.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

This is even more true when it comes to batsman , if i were to state Bradman is overrated as he was the only professional in a era of amateurs and only played in the same conditions or that Tendulkar and Lara batted for their stats and not their team or put Sangakkara on a list of most overrated cricketers . Any of these instances will be highly volatile . Opinions not facts that take away from a legacy is obviously going to be met with resistance ?

 

[Krypto]

I’m pointing out the uselessness of that stat.

Also made a mistake was meant for the rebuttal on regards to negative comment on Tendulkar and Lara not yours as you made a valid point .

Well yes as a single stat no however Ponting is considered in the upper echelon of batsman and captains and cricketers often regarded as the greatest .(Regularly being thrown around as one of the greatest ever) , very little taken away from him . You hardly need to use these stats to prove how good he was ? Just add to it right ?

 

[Coronis]

Also made a mistake was meant for the rebuttal on regards to negative comment on Tendulkar and Lara not yours as you made a valid point .

Well yes as a single stat no however Ponting is considered in the upper echelon of batsman and captains and cricketers often regarded as the greatest .(Regularly being thrown around as one of the greatest ever) , very little taken away from him . You hardly need to use these stats to prove how good he was ? Just add to it right ?

I’m not trying to…

 

[Krypto]

You didn't realise this whole "Kallis boring" thing is an obvious troll job? Brah

You know I was literally thinking this as I was writing my previous post haha

Still think there's a bit of truth to it though

I clearly did not , and still not sure it was , my bad .

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Kallis the bat was at any rate better than Ponting.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

I clearly did not , and still not sure it was , my bad .

Those spaces before commas and full stops are more offensive than the 'Players Comparisons' channel.

 

[BazBall21]

Kallis the bat was at any rate better than Ponting.

I will take Rick

 

[GIMH]

Kallis the bat was at any rate better than Ponting.

Hahahahaha

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I will take Rick

Hahahahaha

Strange that you all feel that because whenever Ponting played against us he couldn't really score. Even Hayden who I hardly rate troubled our second rate bowlers more.

Unlike Kallis who had a great record against us. And every Indian I know thought SA with Kallis was unfair.