wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
What drivel. Can't you even enjoy your boys coming back to claim a famous win without getting chippy about the English?
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Semi Finals
- Thread starter Molehill
- Start date
wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
You'll see it in the 2nd post from the top of the previous page.
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Heboric
International Debutant
Why is it drivel ?
You cant just kick and hope against attacking teams, we learnt the hard way playing the All Blacks
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wpdavid
Hall of Fame Member
Fair question, but ultimately because of it's complete failure to give any credit to a side who had run an absolutely magnificent SA side incredibly close. Despite being palpably the weaker side in almost every department, in most people's veiws before the game, anyway.
From my understanding, England's 'negative' tactics were precisely what kept us ahead for most of the game instead of being taken to the cleaners by the Boks. And, whilst I have no inside knowledge of Borthwick's game-plan, I suspect that not scoring any tries wasn't deliberate.
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andruid
Cricketer Of The Year
The kind of magical run that will forestall critical examination of rugby management and attitudes.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
We lost essentially for two reasons on the night and (arguably) two reasons that existed beforehand, but the latter inform the former.
On the night:
1) Genge and Sinckler were pathetically overmatched and had their heads pushed out their backsides
2) Pollard is a better place kicker than Libbok
More generally:
1) RSA are a better team with better players
2) Erasmus is a far, far cannier and more ruthless tactician than Borthers.
Our geriatric starting props at least achieved parity in the scrum, but their replacements were given an absolute touch up. It was galling to see as an Englishman, but, as something of an unreconstructed set piece purist, kinda heartening to see the grunts have such a telling effect on the outcome.
And dear old Rassie, the thinking person's supervillain, gives the impression he'd sell his first born into slavery for a result. His call to hook the silky Libbok for the more prosaic and functional charms of Pollard after only half an hour was both completely ruthless and utterly correct.
Borthers, by contrast, is one of nature's nice guys. One suspects he doesn't have that level of cold eyed detachment in him. The plan was always to pull Cole and Marler at ~50-55 minutes and he just couldn't bring himself to punch up a change of tactics on the fly.
On the night:
1) Genge and Sinckler were pathetically overmatched and had their heads pushed out their backsides
2) Pollard is a better place kicker than Libbok
More generally:
1) RSA are a better team with better players
2) Erasmus is a far, far cannier and more ruthless tactician than Borthers.
Our geriatric starting props at least achieved parity in the scrum, but their replacements were given an absolute touch up. It was galling to see as an Englishman, but, as something of an unreconstructed set piece purist, kinda heartening to see the grunts have such a telling effect on the outcome.
And dear old Rassie, the thinking person's supervillain, gives the impression he'd sell his first born into slavery for a result. His call to hook the silky Libbok for the more prosaic and functional charms of Pollard after only half an hour was both completely ruthless and utterly correct.
Borthers, by contrast, is one of nature's nice guys. One suspects he doesn't have that level of cold eyed detachment in him. The plan was always to pull Cole and Marler at ~50-55 minutes and he just couldn't bring himself to punch up a change of tactics on the fly.
A voice of reason amongst at last
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
SA biggest advantage has been bench strength... particularly in the tight five. Been using that since pre last WC. Now have just added a better attacking dimension.
Saying all that, I thought that the Eng team played better than the Bokke yesterday. Maybe a bit of tiredness, from previous match, maybe conditions. But for whatever reason Eng played it better and smarter. Eng were unlucky to lose in the final minutes.
Hindsight, I do think that the SA coaches underestimated the toll on the bodies the French game took out of the team should have probably made more changes for this match. I was actually angry last night because of how poorly the Boks played, hopefully it was the wakeup call they needed before facing NZ again.
The game plan fitted the conditions well and while SA scored the only try it was a set piece LO move after winning a scrum penalty. Other than that SA had about the same level of penetration as England.
On paper next week's match looks even but I thought the SA starting 15 looked pretty exhausted last night so will be a challenge to pick themselves up in a week. Yes, the bench strength is on their side but it won't come to much if they get blitzed by the ABs for the first 50 minutes.
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
Called him a “White C***”. Marler got a 2 match ban for calling someone a gypsy.
Depressing reading the SA fans defence of their hooker on X.
So who do I want to win the Final? Racist Mbonambi v Woman Beater Frizzell……tough call!
Uppercut
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The final will be such a different game that I don’t think this one is worth worrying about too much. One of the things that really stands out about SA is their defence, and England negated that by not trying to run with the ball at all. If NZ are scared to attack it’ll be exactly the type of game SA want in the final.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
This is very true... but I worried more about how Eng won the contact and breakdown... feel the SA loosies and tight five were just a pace behind at times. Need to get that energy back for the final. Hope they manage it.
Heboric
International Debutant
Well we have to wait and see, Bongi can speak Afrikaans and there is a word "windgat" - which means braggart, windbag, or show-off. Which does sound like 'White C***'
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Ah, the old Harbhajan explanation.
Why would he speak Afrikaans to Englishman Tom Curry?
Molehill
Cricketer Of The Year
No apparently he was saying “White Kant” as in ball was coming out on the white side (Kant = Side in Afrikaans).
The straw clutching excuses are embarrassing and has certainly helped me decide who I’d like to win the Final.
Dendarii
International Debutant
Mixing of languages does happen, especially in an environment like the South African rugby team where there are multiple languages spoken. Also, white in Afrikaans is "wit", which does sound a little similar.
And I realise that comes across like the clutching of straws mentioned, and I'm sure there have been some over-zealous comments defending him. But it is an unusual insult for a South African to use, particularly one whose first language isn't English. And that's without adding the racial element, which would also be unusual to have been said by someone who's spent his career playing with white teammates.
He may very well have said it, in which case it's very disappointing and needs to be dealt with, but it's also possible that he said something else which has been misinterpreted.