PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Two top 10 spinners
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Jim Laker vs Clarrie Grimmett
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Minnow bully vs Home bully? Is that right?
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Interesting, didn’t know that.
ataraxia
International Coach
Should've played 4 years longer too.
Coronis
International Coach
When I was younger I would’ve said Clarrie for sure, but Laker’s 58-59 effort in Australia (despite being on relatively bowling friendly pitches) cinches it for me, he was the pick of the English spinners. Even without the SCG test he was averaging ~25 that series - for an offie in Australia, are you kidding me?
the big bambino
International Captain
would be a first for you but, alas, not even now.
Grimmett for effectively winning 2 ashes series away. He also cleaned up SA, both times after that country beat England in a series - some minnow.
Laker’s fame rests on THAT game, perhaps unfairly. But the pitches in the 50s definitely assisted him though his record was the best of all. However I’m not sure his performance in 58/59 was superior Tayfield 6 years earlier.
Coronis
International Coach
When did he win 2 Ashes series away? You could argue 1930 but c’mon we know who won that one.
the big bambino
International Captain
That and 34. Victor Richardson (and I'm aware of the tension) says the team couldn't have played the blind school without Grimmett.
Coronis
International Coach
Being the best performing bowler on a team doesn’t always = winning that series for your team. Especially considering the circumstances in the matches won in those series.
2nd test 1930, Bradman and Woodfull set Australia up with 729/6 dec in the first innings, though tbf Grimmett did his fair share with 6/167 in the second innings.
5th test 1930, this time it was Bradman and Ponsford with Australia making 695 in the first innings. Grimmett with 4/135 in the first innings, 1/90 in the second - Hornibrook took 7/92.
1st test 1934 - all about the bowlers this time. Grimmett had 5/81 and 3/37, O’Reilly 4/75 and 7/54. Grimmett did snap up Hammond in the second innings but O’Reilly nabbed all the other major threats.
5th test 1934, another huge first innings for Australia - 701 thanks to Bradman and Ponsford again. England were set 708 in the 4th innings to chase, Grimmett with 5/64 was the pick of the bowlers no doubt but England were never chasing down that target.
Again huge Bradman/Opener contributions for 3 of the wins but sure you could say Grimmett was crucial in winning the 2nd test in 1930, all the others I think we’d have won regardless.
Note: I really do love Grum, he’s one of my all time faves, but its disingenous to say he won us 2 Ashes series imo.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Wait, what? He bowled well in both 1930 and 1934, no question, but he wasn't the most influential performer in either series (and please don't quote Vic Richardson's ridiculous "blind school" line about Grimmett from 1930). 1930 was Bradman's series mirabilis, and in 1934 the Test Australia won through spin was because of O'Reilly.
the big bambino
International Captain
We’re not winning it without Grimnetts wickets in 1930 and since you’re quoting O’Reilly he reckons he credits Grimmett with his and the teams success in 34.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I didn't quote O'Reilly.
the big bambino
International Captain
that’s great. My comment and reference to him still stands.
a massive zebra
International Captain
Stinks of bias, IMO. Grimmett clearly didn't win either of those series. When a team would have won a series without a particular bowler, the fact that he took the most wickets doesn't mean he won the series. Bradman won the 1930 series. Bradman and Ponsford won the 1934 series.
Laker has a much better record against the best opponents of his time and his very best performances are on another level. It's Laker comfortably for me.
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Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Clarence Victor Grimmett easily. Sad how his career was ended after arguably the best series performance of all time.
Bradman saw plenty of Warne and was as big of admirer of Warne as it gets. But Bradman seems pretty clear of his view on Grimmett being a superior bowler. Speaks volume of Grimmett ability really.
O’Reilly seems to be pretty clear on Grimmett being the best bowler to ever breath. No doubt on Tiger being biased but I genuinely don’t believe Tiger’s statement is that much far from truth really.
Bradman saw plenty of Warne and was as big of admirer of Warne as it gets. But Bradman seems pretty clear of his view on Grimmett being a superior bowler. Speaks volume of Grimmett ability really.
O’Reilly seems to be pretty clear on Grimmett being the best bowler to ever breath. No doubt on Tiger being biased but I genuinely don’t believe Tiger’s statement is that much far from truth really.
PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
It seems most ATG spinners are from pre 70s while most ATG pacers are post 70s
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Warne and Murali
the big bambino
International Captain
Quite an odour coming from you imo. Bradmans runs would’ve been of no use outside personal aggrandisement unless bowlers remove the opposition.
therefore to mention Bradman and Ponsford while ignoring Grimmett and then O’Reilly is ridiculous. (It would be fairer to credit all of them.)
Lakers fame is based on the 56 series when he was given pitches cricket had not seen since the primitive paddocks of the 1880s. O’Reilly said he could’ve taken 12 wickets without removing his coat. His efforts in Australia opportunistic and inferior to Tayfield anyway. A great player yes, but one who was boosted by fortunate circumstances moreso than most others.
the big bambino
International Captain
Purely down to opportunity imo. The natural longevity of spinners gave the pre 70s spinners enough games to stand comparison. It would only be fair to compare if all eras played similar amounts of games. Though I do think you can manufacture artificial parameters to compare players across eras to adjust for the imbalance in matches played. The differences distinctly shrink when they are applied.