**Official** English Football Season 2023/24

[Furball]

We might do, and we're probably among the favourites. But there are other good sides too, and our talent pool, although pretty good, isn't as massively above what's available to other strong sides as some would have us believe. Depening on your definition of 'world class', we probably have five players who may deserve that label; Bellingham, Stones, Walker, Saka and, maybe, Kane. Then you have the blokes who are perfectly serviceable at this level but not as good as some would have you believe; Foden, Grealish, Rashford and Rice spring to mind. And some of those are competing for the same places anyway. Actually I'd include Pickford with them, although I know that's not a universally held view. And then you have the the weaker positions alongside Stones and at left back, and some would argue that having those sort of question marks over 50% of your defence is a bad thing. I mean it's way better than some England sides that I've seen. But to listen to some people, you'd think that the players available are on a par with peak France, Germany, Brazil or Holland. Which isn't quite the case.

I think talent wise, England are clearly better than any other European international side at the moment. Whether that translates into success under Southgate is a different matter but I think he's generally done a pretty decent job in terms of international management and you've got players like Bellingham and Saka who are maturing into being the best in the world in their respective positions.

 

[GIMH]

Just what I've seen of them playing for England. They're fine, and I'm not saying we shouldn't pick them, but Foden and Grealish haven't done anything for the national side that I'd describe as 'generational talent'. But perhaps Rice is, on second thoughts.

Tbf they've not had so many chances for England

 

[Socerer 01]

Do you reckon? I mean, you might be right, but I've heard plenty of folk opine that he's not as good as he was and relies on penalties to keep his scoring rate up. And I couldn't claim to know who else might be out there in other countries who might be better nowadays. I do think that there's a tendency to over-rate the players who we see (or saw in Kane's case) on MOTD and under-rate players elsewhere that we aren't so familiar with. Obviously he's good, don't get me wrong.

Bundesliga has had some good strikers this season but they’re all showing that level or playing at a higher level for the 1st time in their career and in Serie A Lautaro is the only world class striker with Lukaku and both are streaky, in La Liga Lewa has been on a slow decline and Morata’s been good but not at a level you would call world class. Kolo Muani has not been good at all since his transfer in Ligue 1

Kane is absolutely top 2 in the world today and arguably more of a complete striker than Haaland is. he doesnt get his credit because he’s a very unassuming player who played for not a big club for very long time

 

[Uppercut]

I thought Kane was overrated for a few years after Poch left, but last season he was definitely back to top 2-3 in the world level. Can’t argue with 30 league goals in a dogshit Spurs team.

I’d have England in a fairly large top tier of international sides where nobody particularly stands out. Just depends on who hits form at the right time.

 

[Pothas]

Yeah France and England probably have the best squads but there are plenty of other sides that could win the Euros. I don't think you can really ever say a side 'should' win an international tournament.

 

[wpdavid]

Tbf they've not had so many chances for England

But guys like Saka and Bellingham have been better at grabbing the opportunities that they have been given than Grealish and Foden. Thinking back to the 2021 euros, we read lots of people criticising Southgate for not picking Grealish. Fast forward a year or so and then we hear that Grealish's all-round game has massively improved under Guardiola and, sure enough, we see more of him in an England shirt. Just possibly Southgate was aware of the defensive weaknesses in Grealish's game two years ago but wasn't going to publicly criticise him to justify his own selections. Nowadays, I'm reading a piece where Guardiola was criticising Foden's defensive game and, again, I suspect that Southgate has been aware of that anyway but isn't going to publicly criticise the lad. And maybe the opportunities available to Foden at club level with KDB out injured will help move his game up a gear. I hope so, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Foden alongside Rice and Bellingham in midfield as well as Grealish on the left of our front three. And I'd really prefer not to see Henderson anywhere near the side (although I'm more tolerant of Phillips). But every now and again we get to see why Southgate does what he does instead of pandering to the critics.

 

[Uppercut]

I think Sterling’s decline just paved the way for Grealish to play more. In Euro 2020 England had a few decent options there and Grealish was arguably a marginal improvement over the others, but the media narrative became that picking him would transform the whole team.

I don’t think Southgate’s selection decisions are great. On the pure footballing side he’s been just ok in general. It’s more in building the team culture and managing the media that he’s been really good. It’s a job where that really matters and it definitely feeds into better performances on the pitch. They were playing in fear for decades because the players knew what the media would do to them if they made a high profile mistake.

 

[sledger]

I'm still hung up on him bringing on Vardy instead of Welbeck against Croatia in 2018.

 

[GIMH]

I think Sterling’s decline just paved the way for Grealish to play more. In Euro 2020 England had a few decent options there and Grealish was arguably a marginal improvement over the others, but the media narrative became that picking him would transform the whole team.

I don’t think Southgate’s selection decisions are great. On the pure footballing side he’s been just ok in general. It’s more in building the team culture and managing the media that he’s been really good. It’s a job where that really matters and it definitely feeds into better performances on the pitch. They were playing in fear for decades because the players knew what the media would do to them if they made a high profile mistake.

I don’t want to sound like a broken record but as part of what you’ve said, I like the way he has built an England team and within reason once you’re there, you’ll be judged on the job you’re doing for him, not somebody else.

He was on TMS in the summer and talked about central contracts and the advantages that brings the England cricket side. He wasn’t proposing football have such a thing, obviously it would be a non starter, but I did get the feeling he wanted more of a ‘Team England’ feel like you get with cricket (and other international sports).

 

[GIMH]

https://x.com/bbcmotd/status/1715011639001460895?s=46&t=GW3Qe87aWsvzbCLbVHvshg

Shite. Just go down the FA Trophy route. Settled on the day if both teams agree to it. Means Aston Villa V West Ham doesn’t go to a replay but Tranmere V Watford still does.

 

[Uppercut]

He's gone for the "former UDA enforcer failing to make a career as a legitimate politician" look. You can't say he doesn't know his audience.

 

[Chin Music]

Don’t know the appropriate thread but Sir Bobby Charlton RIP.

 

[Skipper Pup]

Bundesliga has had some good strikers this season but they’re all showing that level or playing at a higher level for the 1st time in their career and in Serie A Lautaro is the only world class striker with Lukaku and both are streaky, in La Liga Lewa has been on a slow decline and Morata’s been good but not at a level you would call world class. Kolo Muani has not been good at all since his transfer in Ligue 1

Kane is absolutely top 2 in the world today and arguably more of a complete striker than Haaland is. he doesnt get his credit because he’s a very unassuming player who played for not a big club for very long time

I don't think there's any sort of argument tbh, the gulf between the two players is enormous. Haaland is insanely clinical but he's a very long way from being a complete player. I actually would almost go as far to say Alvarez is the most complete striker City have, he's got it all.

Personally I have Griezmann ahead of most the guys you mentioned, he doesn't necessarily have the pure goal output of others but he's a sensational player. Oshimen similarly is class but I'm keen to see him in England or Spain so he can take that next step. Benzema is of course there, albeit semi-retired.

After them it turns to guys like Dybala, Jota, Aspas, Depay, Isak etc. I'm taking most of them ahead of Morata and Lukaku, that's for sure!

 

[Skipper Pup]

I think Sterling’s decline just paved the way for Grealish to play more. In Euro 2020 England had a few decent options there and Grealish was arguably a marginal improvement over the others, but the media narrative became that picking him would transform the whole team.

I don’t think Southgate’s selection decisions are great. On the pure footballing side he’s been just ok in general. It’s more in building the team culture and managing the media that he’s been really good. It’s a job where that really matters and it definitely feeds into better performances on the pitch. They were playing in fear for decades because the players knew what the media would do to them if they made a high profile mistake.

Perfectly fine manager if you want a happy culture and players to get protected from the media. He's done a phenomenal job of that.

Different story if you actually want to win trophies. Southgate will always fall short because tactically he's inept and similar to his playing career, he's prone to making errors in the big moments. World class coaches will exploit it just like Mancini did. The same players he trusts (I think he also sees alot of himself in them) are the ones that will let him down when it matters - Pickford, Maguire, Phillips, Henderson, etc.

He should have sailed off into the sunset after the Euros and he would have been remembered fondly. Instead he's stuck around and will waste another big tournament just to inevitably get walked as the villain.

 

[grecian]

I sometimes think that we get lost in narrative, on the Liverpool derby game people want to get thrown into the narrative of VAR, whilst they definitely have a point about konate, the penalty and people bleating about it being the rules fault, I mean it's imho an utterly clear penalty at any time in history, his hands are miles from his body, stopping a dangerous cross gonig in.

 

[grecian]

People talk about Southgate being a great media manager, which he has been, but he's almost ruining it over Henderson, I think if he realises that mistake and just has a discussion with Jordan about retiring, we can still kick on, but otherwise it's making him look an obvious hypocrite as he's said he only wants people playing in the best league, it's killing the moral message him and the team put out about being nice blokes who believe in thing, and Henderson isn't that good.

It's such an easy fix, but if he doesn't do it, he just looks like a stubborn arsehole.

 

[Furball]

Perfectly fine manager if you want a happy culture and players to get protected from the media. He's done a phenomenal job of that.

Different story if you actually want to win trophies. Southgate will always fall short because tactically he's inept and similar to his playing career, he's prone to making errors in the big moments. World class coaches will exploit it just like Mancini did. The same players he trusts (I think he also sees alot of himself in them) are the ones that will let him down when it matters - Pickford, Maguire, Phillips, Henderson, etc.

He should have sailed off into the sunset after the Euros and he would have been remembered fondly. Instead he's stuck around and will waste another big tournament just to inevitably get walked as the villain.

By taking a game to penalties?

 

[Socerer 01]

I don't think there's any sort of argument tbh, the gulf between the two players is enormous. Haaland is insanely clinical but he's a very long way from being a complete player. I actually would almost go as far to say Alvarez is the most complete striker City have, he's got it all.

Personally I have Griezmann ahead of most the guys you mentioned, he doesn't necessarily have the pure goal output of others but he's a sensational player. Oshimen similarly is class but I'm keen to see him in England or Spain so he can take that next step. Benzema is of course there, albeit semi-retired.

After them it turns to guys like Dybala, Jota, Aspas, Depay, Isak etc. I'm taking most of them ahead of Morata and Lukaku, that's for sure!

Griezmann isnt a striker though and hasn't been one for a very long time, Haaland is also not being used to his fullest potential by Pep tbh he is capable of being more instead of a glorified poacher

Morata and Lukaku have been having good seasons tbf but i can see your point

 

[wpdavid]

Strewth, some people do spout some rubbish about Southgate. Precisely when has Pickford let us down when it matters? Ditto Henderson actually, as our WC performances actually improved when he came into the team. And obviously that doesn't mean he should still be in the team now, but let's at least get our facts right. Has Maguire actually let the side down when it matters? Ditto about whether he should be in the side now. Even Phillips was an important part of the side that reached the euros final. I mean, I know we're all experts from the safety of our laptops, but the anti-Southgate agenda that some people have just beggars belief to those of us who followed the side for more than six years and/or aren't interested in what some of the pundits feel they need to say to remain in gainful employment.

 

[Skipper Pup]

Griezmann isnt a striker though and hasn't been one for a very long time, Haaland is also not being used to his fullest potential by Pep tbh he is capable of being more instead of a glorified poacher

Morata and Lukaku have been having good seasons tbf but i can see your point

Are you watching the same Griezmann as I am?

He literally scored a hat trick playing striker less than 24hr ago. He's been playing striker all season