I was trying like the best team to be possible to put on paper. Actually I was having a discussion with someone on a thread about India vs Pakistan All time teams; so it came to my mind.
1 | Herbert Sutcliffe | 4555 Runs @60.73 |
2 | Jack Hobbs | 5410 Runs @56.94 |
3 | Ken Barrington | 6806 Runs @58.67 |
4 | Wally Hammond | 7249 Runs @58.45 |
5 | Denis Compton | 5807 Runs @50.06 |
6 | Alan Knott(W/K) | 4389 runs @32.75 250 Catches 19 Stumpings |
7 | Billy Barnes | 725 Runs @23.38 51 wickets @15.54 |
8 | John Briggs | 815 runs @18.11 118 wickets@17.75 |
9 | George Lohmann | 112 wickets @10.75 |
10 | Sydney Barnes | 189 wickets @16.43 |
11 | Bobby Peel | 101 Wickets @16.98 |
| Team | Total months | Highest rating |
|---|---|---|
| 350 | 143 |
| 235 | 135 |
| 106 | 125 |
| 94 | 130 |
| 61 | 135 |
| 8 | 126 |
| 4 | 111 |
| Reference: ICC Historical Rankings |
Interesting take. I actually think that Windies and Aussies are actually closer than one might think. Australia have the advantage in opening, Gilchrist and spinners in general (not just Warne but O'Reilly, Grimmett, Lyon , Trumble and Benaud as well if required); while, hear me out; windies have a stronger middle order; in the likes of Richards, Lara, Headley, Sobers and Walcott (if he keeps). After Bradman, the first four of them are in consideration in the Greatest batsmen 2nd spot. Pace I also think goes to WI, with Marshall, Ambrose and Holding/Garner/Walsh barely edging out Lillee, Miller, McGrath and/or Lindwall. But yeah, ultimately I think Bradman factor dictates.
Yeah, at the end of the day, I know that trying to make an All Time Team is futile; but I think it's still quite fun. Case in point, the team you made will most likely get demolished nowadays, by probably current England nonetheless. I think it mostly comes down to impact, legacy and how good they were back then. Case in point, your English team has 3 spinners and two bowlers who bowled what is still a mystery but according to some it's spin.Ok so with Tests this becomes convoluted due to the long history of the game as well as the differences in eras . Can you compare someone like J Ferris or IMO one of the best surnames to ever play Frederick Spofforth to a modern great like Glenn McGrath. Even if you go back just one lifetime and take someone like Alan Davidson who last game was in 1963 it is difficult to have this conversation due to our lack of knowledge and first hand experience . None of us would have seen Ferris or Spofforth bowl so we need to go off records and recordings of events . I think you have a interesting topic and one that has had many irritations however for this to be a proper conversation you will need to put a little bit more context or criteria to it .
The forum you used is where this is a constant reminder and we dare go into the frey however looking for something conclusive is difficult . Case and point you have England ranked 3rd . However below team that I'm sure has players very few would know about and on paper would destroy any team however IMO any ranked test team in 2023 would destroy these players so prior to 1955 you will have England Australia and South Africa . Between 1955 and 1990 you have a pre professional boom with almost comparable players to current era past 1990 imo. And this isn't just the England side you can do almost the exact same with Australia and South Africa .
This being said there are many who would put some of these players on a all time list and try and compare , Which is folly IMO however still a lot of fun if your not to serious about it . .
Herbert Sutcliffe 4555 Runs @60.73 Jack Hobbs 5410 Runs @56.94 Ken Barrington 6806 Runs @58.67 Wally Hammond 7249 Runs @58.45 Denis Compton 5807 Runs @50.06 Alan Knott(W/K) 4389 runs @32.75 250 Catches 19 Stumpings Billy Barnes 725 Runs @23.38 51 wickets @15.54 John Briggs 815 runs @18.11 118 wickets@17.75 George Lohmann 112 wickets @10.75 Sydney Barnes 189 wickets @16.43 Bobby Peel 101 Wickets @16.98
However after all this is think the best thing to go off is official rankings that has been populating since 1955 and it shows the below countries ranked which reads close to your list and is for exactly that reason to show the best test playing nations historically .
Team Total months Highest rating 350 143 235 135 106 125 94 130 61 135 8 126 4 111 Reference: ICC Historical Rankings
Nah whilst England has the superior batting, SA’s bowling is leagues ahead. Going by your own ATXI from the ATG team thread the attacks would be:
Yea exactly , just a rebuttal on the bowlers , i tried to use at least 3 that opened the bowling initially and then quickly realized all of them have bowled with what would have been the new ball . So i used 3 that was accredited for bowling seam up supposedly . both Barnes(Sydney and Billy) and George Lohmann were all considered seam bowlers .
This attack should be as good as any,
Modern Test teams (England for instance) should win because you haven’t chosen anything close to the strongest team.
Larwood is massively overrated - he had one great series and outside of that was pretty mediocre - with occasional great bowling innings but unable to keep it up consistently. Laker is definitely an improvement on Rhodes - he did though play a high percentage of home matches and was nowhere near as penetrative overseas.
Yeah. England's batting is top 3 but the bowling is 5th.
Any of England's best spinners are all way ahead of Faulkner though (obviously you could have Tayfield.)