Vernon Philander vs Jason Gillespie

[trundler]

Yes I know the feeling - right @cnerd123?

"Fast" "bowler"

 

[BazBall21]

Gillespie

 

[shortpitched713]

Don't mind me. Just browsing by and voting for my guy Philander in every poll I can find.

Although it's a shame that this one wasn't public.

 

[BazBall21]

Gillespie should have won this

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Gillespie should have won this

Probably depends on conditions. Gillespie better on roads but Philander one of the best ever on seaming pitches.

 

[a massive zebra]

Definitely Philander. Gillespie was a quality bowler, but Philander was one of the best ever in favourable conditions and kept it tight on unfavourable pitches, which is why he came out with a better record than Gillespie.

 

[Majestic]

Philander has 16 wickets in 10 matches he played in Asia. So, that's that.

Tough one here because I don't rate Gillispie much too except for that one terrific series in India, he was mostly a support bowler.

Probably Philander in SENA and Gillispie in Asia.

 

[a massive zebra]

Bit harsh to call Gillespie a support bowler. He was the opening bowler for the world's best team.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think both are a bit underrated on CW by some people, but unlike the situation when I usually say that I think I hold opinions that are just on the upper end of normal instead of being batshit insane.

 

[subshakerz]

I went for Gillespie. Less condition dependent, more pace and bounce.

He has solid away series in England, SA, WI in the 90s and India of course while being strong at home on less helpful pitches than Vern in 2000s.

Vern's magnificent record at home is countered by his bad record in SC. Gillespie at least was support bowler level quality in SC, Vern wasn't even that.

 

[Bolo.]

Hypothetical:

Philander recovers for the 3rd India test in 2015. He takes 7/70 (and I actually think I would have expected him to do this well, if not better). He is a GOAT candidate in terms of abusing decks that suited him, and he never got an opportunity to bowl on a deck that suited him as well as that one.

He ends up with a great average in Asia. He is still a bowler that just abuses friendly conditions and is otherwise mediocre, but we tend to erroneously rate bowlers on countries/continents, not decks.

Do you think you would rate him higher?

 

[subshakerz]

Hypothetical:

Philander recovers for the 3rd India test in 2015. He takes 7/70 (and I actually think I would have expected him to do this well, if not better). He is a GOAT candidate in terms of abusing decks that suited him, and he never got an opportunity to bowl on a deck that suited him as well as that one.

He ends up with a great average in Asia. He is still a bowler that just abuses friendly conditions and is otherwise mediocre, but we tend to erroneously rate bowlers on countries/continents, not decks.

Do you think you would rate him higher?

Of course we would rate him higher. But he didn't do that, so we don't rate him higher.

 

[BazBall21]

I went for Gillespie. Less condition dependent, more pace and bounce.

He has solid away series in England, SA, WI in the 90s and India of course while being strong at home on less helpful pitches than Vern in 2000s.

Vern's magnificent record at home is countered by his bad record in SC. Gillespie at least was support bowler level quality in SC, Vern wasn't even that.

Gillespie was actually better than a support bowler in SC.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Gillespie was actually better than a support bowler in SC.

Incredible series in India

 

[subshakerz]

Gillespie should have won this

Never underestimate the ability of CW's posters being massively swayed by raw averages in their judgements.

 

[subshakerz]

Gillespie was actually better than a support bowler in SC.

Fair enough. Anyway, much better than Vern.

 

[honestbharani]

Gillespie was awesome. Easily him over Vern.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Of course we would rate him higher. But he didn't do that, so we don't rate him higher.

If I'm understanding this hypothetical correctly , philander still only does well on the bowler friendly track right? So just because it happens to be in Asia why should your opinion about him change?

 

[subshakerz]

If I'm understanding this hypothetical correctly , philander still only does well on the bowler friendly track right? So just because it happens to be in Asia why should your opinion about him change?

Because taking a 7fer in India against the no.1 team in their home, even on a supportive track, is a rare feat for any pace bowler. We are talking about likely the best spell in Vern's career.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Because taking a 7fer in India against the no.1 team in their home, even on a supportive track, is a rare feat for any pace bowler. We are talking about likely the best spell in Vern's career.

Sure? But if its a greentop in this hypothetical it's literally told us nothing about philander we didn't already know.