Formula 1

[Pothas]

Yeah it is dire. I usually record it anyway and watch the start before generally giving up.

Today was actually fun because of the rain. There was even about 10 seconds where I thought Alonso might actually win.

 

[social]

F1 has been a procession for years

 

[Flem274*]

This was my first rave in a year or 2 and I was reasonably impressed. There was a lot going on everywhere but the Verstappen lead.

It's the inherent issue with any constructors championship though. A top 5 or 3 world talent in the best car with a team mate not allowed to compete (Perez got rekt by the radio today "undercut") often creates a run away winner.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Think Lawson did a pretty respectable job considering the circumstances, it was never particularly realistic to expect miracles considering the 11th hour nature of his callup.

Honestly before this I did kinda feel his career was panning out similar to Brendon Hartley, and not just because of his nationality and questionable haircut. In the Red Bull junior setup, seemingly next in line only to be overlooked. Of course in Hartley's case he got the callup only much later when Red Bull were pretty much out of options for the (then) Toro Rosso seat. Hopefully this oppurtunity however means Lawson won't have the same circuitous path to his career

Thought the race was decent, not superb but better than a lot of F1 races. Still stand by what I have long said, for actual competitive wheel to wheel racing Indycar is a lot better to watch than F1 and has been for years

 

[social]

F1 might become more competitive as a spending cap for each team of $145 million was introduced in 2021

Prior to its introduction, the big teams (basically Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull) were spending hundreds of millions more than the other teams so no surprise which teams generally finished up front

 

[Flem274*]

Think Lawson did a pretty respectable job considering the circumstances, it was never particularly realistic to expect miracles considering the 11th hour nature of his callup.

Honestly before this I did kinda feel his career was panning out similar to Brendon Hartley, and not just because of his nationality and questionable haircut. In the Red Bull junior setup, seemingly next in line only to be overlooked. Of course in Hartley's case he got the callup only much later when Red Bull were pretty much out of options for the (then) Toro Rosso seat. Hopefully this oppurtunity however means Lawson won't have the same circuitous path to his career

Thought the race was decent, not superb but better than a lot of F1 races. Still stand by what I have long said, for actual competitive wheel to wheel racing Indycar is a lot better to watch than F1 and has been for years

Yeah kiwis and aussies don't sell fizzy drinks or luxury cars and sections of F1 probably still don't really want a USA champion. Piastri is a generational talent and arguably should have been in earlier than he is, but open wheel motorsport is heavily regionalised in talent atm. As an example I hope Sargeant goes well but Newgarden is easily the best USA open wheel driver on the planet atm and it isn't close imo.

 

[ripper868]

Good to see someone else w...never mind.

 

[Furball]

F1 might become more competitive as a spending cap for each team of $145 million was introduced in 2021

Prior to its introduction, the big teams (basically Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull) were spending hundreds of millions more than the other teams so no surprise which teams generally finished up front

The opposite will happen. The spending cap will lock in Red Bull's advantage because the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari won't be able to spend enough to close the gap.

 

[Flem274*]

I'm looking forward to Piastri knocking Verstappen off the throne given the opportunity just for the cope I'll get to read on r/formula1.

You don't come from this part of the world and blaze through the extremely expensive and pro-European junior series unless you are WDC material.

Ricciardo's prime was wasted on mediocre cars. I hope Piastri doesn't suffer the same. He is seriously impressive.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah kiwis and aussies don't sell fizzy drinks or luxury cars and sections of F1 probably still don't really want a USA champion. Piastri is a generational talent and arguably should have been in earlier than he is, but open wheel motorsport is heavily regionalised in talent atm. As an example I hope Sargeant goes well but Newgarden is easily the best USA open wheel driver on the planet atm and it isn't close imo.

Funny how Indycar is a US based series but only 1 American got a top 8 finish and only 2 won races. Tbh though at this stage I feel like Indycar’s result this year (Palou with a clear but not completely insane gap) would be F1 even if Verstappen didn’t have a superior car - he is ridiculous.

 

[Flem274*]

Funny how Indycar is a US based series but only 1 American got a top 8 finish and only 2 won races. Tbh though at this stage I feel like Indycar’s result this year (Palou with a clear but not completely insane gap) would be F1 even if Verstappen didn’t have a superior car - he is ridiculous.

Verstappen is on an absolutely insane run right now. He's still got the peak pace of a young man but with the experience of a 30 year old. Red Bull skipping most of the junior formulas and bringing him almost straight in has paid off. I hope it's not too much survivorship bias since Jos is a ****.

Indycar is essentially a world series in terms of where they draw their talent pool. There's only 3 adult single seater series on the planet that have paid seats (maybe 4 if Super Formula pays? Unsure). Newgarden is an excellent driver and a two time champion so I don't think the US have underperformed in talent production for senior single seater drivers.

 

[Coronis]

Verstappen is on an absolutely insane run right now. He's still got the peak pace of a young man but with the experience of a 30 year old. Red Bull skipping most of the junior formulas and bringing him almost straight in has paid off. I hope it's not too much survivorship bias since Jos is a ****.

Indycar is essentially a world series in terms of where they draw their talent pool. There's only 3 adult single seater series on the planet that have paid seats (maybe 4 if Super Formula pays? Unsure). Newgarden is an excellent driver and a two time champion so I don't think the US have underperformed in talent production for senior single seater drivers.

Oh yeah I’m always truly impressed by how wide the pool is in IndyCar (which McLaughlin’s transition all the more amazing - despite being in a top team), Newgarden is excellent of course - we’ll see if Herta and Kirkwood can continue to progress.

 

[social]

I have seen plenty of F1 and IndyCar races as both were held in my hometowns at various times

IndyCars were more enjoyable for the simple fact that the field is more even in terms of pace plus the cars can handle more contact so more overtaking

Supercars are better than both IMO but MotoGP is insane to watch at the track

Those guys are fkn nuts

 

[Coronis]

I have seen plenty of F1 and IndyCar races as both were held in my hometowns at various times

IndyCars were more enjoyable for the simple fact that the field is more even in terms of pace plus the cars can handle more contact so more overtaking

Supercars are better than both IMO but MotoGP is insane to watch at the track

Those guys are fkn nuts

Supercars were way better than both. Have you watched this year? Things have been pretty crazy and people copping a lot of flack. Not surprised SVG is leaving and it looks like others may be keen to follow. Can barely even get excited recently about Erebus properly challenging 888. Ford have only won 2 races to Chevy’s 20, both in the longer races, first due to DQ’s (not based on any performance advantage), and second due to a very timely SC for a 3 stop vs 2 stop.

 

[Flem274*]

Tbf as lopsided as this year has been for a parity series, it's not just the temporary disparity that has drivers looking elsewhere. The drivers and overseas teams have realised through the success of McLaughlin and SVG that the front of this field is really ****ing fast. I didn't think Supercars drivers had world level pace either but Scott McLaughin has as many race wins in IndyCar as supposed top 20 in the world last decade Romain Grosjean and Marcus Ericsson.

Which makes sense given an Australian or kiwi looking to get paid to drive can take the risk on spending huge amounts of their sponsors money in Europe or less money but still a lot in America. More recently some have gone to Japan. Why do that when you can be a superstar at home and spend a lot less to get a pretty well paying job in a very fun series?

SVG targeted Supercars from the age of 16. I'm less familiar with McLaughlin's teenage goals but he fired through the Australian ranks fast. I don't think Whincup ever bothered with the overseas junior formulas either. The Supercars field quality has benefited greatly from its accessibility compared to its pay.

 

[Coronis]

Tbf as lopsided as this year has been for a parity series, it's not just the temporary disparity that has drivers looking elsewhere. The drivers and overseas teams have realised through the success of McLaughlin and SVG that the front of this field is really ****ing fast. I didn't think Supercars drivers had world level pace either but Scott McLaughin has as many race wins in IndyCar as supposed top 20 in the world last decade Romain Grosjean and Marcus Ericsson.

Which makes sense given an Australian or kiwi looking to get paid to drive can take the risk on spending huge amounts of their sponsors money in Europe or less money but still a lot in America. More recently some have gone to Japan. Why do that when you can be a superstar at home and spend a lot less to get a pretty well paying job in a very fun series?

SVG targeted Supercars from the age of 16. I'm less familiar with McLaughlin's teenage goals but he fired through the Australian ranks fast. I don't think Whincup ever bothered with the overseas junior formulas either. The Supercars field quality has benefited greatly from its accessibility compared to its pay.

Yeah I remember a lot of people worrying how well McLaughlin would do and a lot of US pundits talking about how different and harder it would be - similar things with SVG and his wildcards this year. The top of our talent is no doubt just as skilled as anyone else. Its awful that our most talented post Whincup are just leaving - Kostecki is looking like he might want to as well. Might just be Chaz and Cam left in years to come. At least they’ll finally get their championships then.

 

[social]

Supercars were way better than both. Have you watched this year? Things have been pretty crazy and people copping a lot of flack. Not surprised SVG is leaving and it looks like others may be keen to follow. Can barely even get excited recently about Erebus properly challenging 888. Ford have only won 2 races to Chevy’s 20, both in the longer races, first due to DQ’s (not based on any performance advantage), and second due to a very timely SC for a 3 stop vs 2 stop.

Nah, I am a casual fan at best these days and haven’t watched a race this year

SVG is one of the world’s best drivers & stepped out of a SuperCar and won his first start in NASCAR

 

[Flem274*]

Yeah I remember a lot of people worrying how well McLaughlin would do and a lot of US pundits talking about how different and harder it would be - similar things with SVG and his wildcards this year. The top of our talent is no doubt just as skilled as anyone else. Its awful that our most talented post Whincup are just leaving - Kostecki is looking like he might want to as well. Might just be Chaz and Cam left in years to come. At least they’ll finally get their championships then.

I think we'll retain top level talent, just not to the length of time we're used to. Jamie Whincup skipped straight from Formula Ford dominance to Supercars. He can't have had the sponsorship behind him to go for overseas junior formulas. Based on his results against guys who have since gone overseas to great success, or his demolition of guys who have come from overseas with junior formula success, Whincup was the real deal in terms of being a world level talent and it's a shame we only know this now.

If you're one of the young blokes at the front of the Supercars field right now, life is looking good. America doesn't hyperfocus on the results of children as much as Europe.

I don't think Waters will ever get a championship. He's not quite quick enough and puts himself in **** teams.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Whincup's early career was interesting. 2002 Formula Ford champ, then came straight up to V8 Supercars driving for Garry Rogers for 2003. That season however turned out to be a bit of a disaster. Admittedly he was stuck in an older car while Garth Tander had a new one, but he was mostly towards the back and got involved in quite a few bumps and scrapes. Dropped off the fulltime grid for 2004, then returned in 2005 alongside the late Jason Richards at Tasman Motorsport. They were pretty evenly matched, and combined brilliantly to score 3rd at Sandown and then 2nd at Bathurst. This was enough for Roland Dane to start looking at hiring him for 2006. Safe to say things worked out pretty well on that one.

Back more broadly to the future of Supercars, while things aren't as healthy as they could be, all the "the series is dying" calls are over the top. There are still some quality drivers on the grid for 2024, and even those like Brodie Kostecki mentioned who do have ambitions to leave in the future likely won't be doing so in the short term.

The Gen3 car can certainly be improved too, both with parity and with the patchy reliability of some of the control parts on the cars (although that isn't a problem that only afflicts Supercars, NASCAR themselves had some similar dramas when their new car was introduced at the start of last year). But in terms of racing, the reduction of downforce on the cars seems to have mostly worked, not perfect but there has been some really good racing at times

 

[Flem274*]

Whincup's early career was interesting. 2002 Formula Ford champ, then came straight up to V8 Supercars driving for Garry Rogers for 2003. That season however turned out to be a bit of a disaster. Admittedly he was stuck in an older car while Garth Tander had a new one, but he was mostly towards the back and got involved in quite a few bumps and scrapes. Dropped off the fulltime grid for 2004, then returned in 2005 alongside the late Jason Richards at Tasman Motorsport. They were pretty evenly matched, and combined brilliantly to score 3rd at Sandown and then 2nd at Bathurst. This was enough for Roland Dane to start looking at hiring him for 2006. Safe to say things worked out pretty well on that one.

Back more broadly to the future of Supercars, while things aren't as healthy as they could be, all the "the series is dying" calls are over the top. There are still some quality drivers on the grid for 2024, and even those like Brodie Kostecki mentioned who do have ambitions to leave in the future likely won't be doing so in the short term.

The Gen3 car can certainly be improved too, both with parity and with the patchy reliability of some of the control parts on the cars (although that isn't a problem that only afflicts Supercars, NASCAR themselves had some similar dramas when their new car was introduced at the start of last year). But in terms of racing, the reduction of downforce on the cars seems to have mostly worked, not perfect but there has been some really good racing at times

I think kids just suck at driving high power low downforce cars. Junior formulas don't really prepare you for it at all. Whincup graduated from Formula Ford to the big time and initially failed. Richie Stanaway came back from GP2 and failed. Simon Wills and Alex Davison were similar junior formula respectables who failed and despite being quite good at juniors neither Will Davison or Courtney have had dominant runs.

Whereas the guys who came through Super 2 and the like hit the ground running better.

Haha, the series has been dying since Ambrose left iirc. We're a negative bunch. The car can be fixed, I'm just glad the field hates each other too much for DTM style shenanigans.