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CW's Ranking of WicketKeeper-Batsmen (Tests)

P

peterhrt

U19 Vice-Captain
Alan Knott reckoned Wasim Bari was the best wicket-keeper of his time because he made fewest mistakes.

Cricketers from various countries visited South Africa during the 1980s and several thought Ray Jennings was the world's best keeper.
 
P

peterhrt

U19 Vice-Captain
The Sean said:
I had always thought it was commonly accepted that Kirmani was the greatest Indian gloveman, but it seems that those who saw Engineer in action don't necessarily agree.
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The Indian spinners themselves thought Kirmani was the best. He did suffer occasional lapses of form which led to him being dropped.

Engineer was flashier and could bat effectively anywhere in the order.

David Lloyd tells a story when he was heading towards a Test double century against India and his Lancashire teammate Engineer was behind the stumps. Engineer kept telling him to concentrate and not get out. One cannot imagine that happening today.
 
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bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
peterhrt said:
The Indian spinners themselves thought Kirmani was the best. He did suffer occasional lapses of form which led to him being dropped.
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Not sure of that opinion. Kirmani played for India between Jan 1976 and Jan 1986. In that period, out of the 95 tests his team played, he kept wickets in 88 of them. Bharat Reddy and Viswanath got one series each (England 1979, Srilanka 1985) for a total of 7 tests. In other words, he was the absolute regular who did not get dropped.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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bagapath said:
Not sure of that opinion. Kirmani played for India between Jan 1976 and Jan 1986. In that period, out of the 95 tests his team played, he kept wickets in 88 of them. Bharat Reddy and Viswanath got one series each (England 1979, Srilanka 1985) for a total of 7 tests. In other words, he was the absolute regular who did not get dropped.
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Looks like he was dropped at least twice tbf :ph34r:
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Blundell's talented enough to end up >Watling with both bat and gloves at Test level for mine.
 
P

peterhrt

U19 Vice-Captain
bagapath said:
Not sure of that opinion. Kirmani played for India between Jan 1976 and Jan 1986. In that period, out of the 95 tests his team played, he kept wickets in 88 of them. Bharat Reddy and Viswanath got one series each (England 1979, Srilanka 1985) for a total of 7 tests. In other words, he was the absolute regular who did not get dropped.
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He was dropped in 1979, both for the World Cup and the tour of England.

During the 1984-85 home series against England he missed important chances at Madras which cost India the series, and was dropped at the end of it.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
peterhrt said:
He was dropped in 1979, both for the World Cup and the tour of England.

During the 1984-85 home series against England he missed important chances at Madras which cost India the series, and was dropped at the end of it.
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Meaning he was the regular keeper for ten years and for 88 out of 95 tests. Same thing i said.
 
A

Ali TT

International Vice-Captain
Ames record compared to his peers really is remarkable. His main predecessor for England, George Duckworth averaged 14 and never scored a first class century (Ames made over a hundred), while his successor, Evans, averaged 20. The main Aussie keeper at the same time, Oldfield, averaged 22. The immediate post-war Aussie mainstays, Tallon and Langley averaged 17 and 15.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Ali TT said:
Ames record compared to his peers really is remarkable. His main predecessor for England, George Duckworth averaged 14 and never scored a first class century (Ames made over a hundred), while his successor, Evans, averaged 20. The main Aussie keeper at the same time, Oldfield, averaged 22. The immediate post-war Aussie mainstays, Tallon and Langley averaged 17 and 15.
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Whilst Ames was no doubt great and probably(?) The first great keeper-bat his test average is highly inflated. He only averaged 27 vs Australia and played 30/47 matches against India/NZ/SA/WI. More confusingly his average in Australia (where batting was generally easier at the time) was only 17, despite ample opportunity (one of only 4 England players to play all 10 Ashes tests in Australia in the 30’s)
 
A

Ali TT

International Vice-Captain
Coronis said:
Whilst Ames was no doubt great and probably(?) The first great keeper-bat his test average is highly inflated. He only averaged 27 vs Australia and played 30/47 matches against India/NZ/SA/WI. More confusingly his average in Australia (where batting was generally easier at the time) was only 17, despite ample opportunity (one of only 4 England players to play all 10 Ashes tests in Australia in the 30’s)
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Interesting, thanks, but the sample sizes back in those days are small. 27 still sizeable compared to others at the time too.

I don't know whether Ames always kept for Kent (he also bowled a bit!) but his FC average was 43 whereas most FC keepers were mostly also in the teens and 20s. Linking to another thread on legacies, it doesn't appear Ames changed the game like Gilchrist did as it was some time before keepers who were genuine all-rounders became the standard.
 
N

number11

State Regular
peterhrt said:
Alan Knott reckoned Wasim Bari was the best wicket-keeper of his time because he made fewest mistakes.

Cricketers from various countries visited South Africa during the 1980s and several thought Ray Jennings was the world's best keeper.
Click to expand...
As a pure gloveman Bari was brilliant. Best Asia has ever produced and easily Pakistan's best pure gloveman. Couldn't bat though so misses out in such discussions.

Without going through 12 pages, it is manifest that Gilly is #1 and after him there is some debate. Healy and Marsh were both excellent, Knott was superb. Dujon also very good. MSD added a lot with his leadership thrown in. Alec Stewart was a fine bat and I'd like to see his numbers for when he kept wickets as well.
 
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