The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[CricAddict]

Sarfaraz Khan

Ajay Sharma Amol Muzumdar

 

[OverratedSanity]

Hmm - thinking about an XI of players who were ATGs in first class - but either failed at tests/only played limited matches.

Off the top of my head theres blokes like Richards and Procter, Bevan and Ramprakash, hell even WG Grace.

Probs do some research on this after work tonight..

Tich Freeman? He has basically every important bowling record in FC cricket,and the gap between him and second place in sone of the records is unbelievable. Statistically, he's the greatest fc bowler ever by a mile. But he was looked at as a bit of a test flop relatively despite his averages being ok.

 

[a massive zebra]

Tich Freeman? He has basically every important bowling record in FC cricket,and the gap between him and second place in sone of the records is unbelievable. Statistically, he's the greatest fc bowler ever by a mile. But he was looked at as a bit of a test flop relatively despite his averages being ok.

His Test record is ok because he battered some then minnow countries like West Indies. His average against Australia was over 50.

The same thing happened in County cricket to a lesser extent. His average against the better counties like Surrey and Yorkshire was in the mid 20s but he absolutely demolished some of the weaker counties like Northamptonshire and Glamorgan with averages of about 11.

Tich Freeman took :

• 231 wickets @ 11.59 against Leicestershire and 253 wickets @ 11.71 against Northamptonshire, two of the weakest county sides of his time.
• 22 wickets @ 13.72 against the very first, pre Headley West Indies test team.
• 142 wickets @ 26.06 against Surrey and 153 wickets @ 25.86 against Yorkshire, two of the strongest county batting sides of his time.
• His average in Tests against Australia was a monstrous 57.37.

 

[Coronis]

His Test record is ok because he battered some then minnow countries like West Indies. His average against Australia was over 50.

The same thing happened in County cricket to a lesser extent. His average against the better counties like Surrey and Yorkshire was in the mid 20s but he absolutely demolished some of the weaker counties like Northamptonshire and Glamorgan with averages of about 11.

Tich Freeman took :

• 231 wickets @ 11.59 against Leicestershire and 253 wickets @ 11.71 against Northamptonshire, two of the weakest county sides of his time.
• 22 wickets @ 13.72 against the very first, pre Headley West Indies test team.
• 142 wickets @ 26.06 against Surrey and 153 wickets @ 25.86 against Yorkshire, two of the strongest county batting sides of his time.
• His average in Tests against Australia was a monstrous 57.37.

May I ask where you got that info from?

 

[kyear2]

Sir Leonard Hutton
Sunil Gavaskar ^
Sir Donald Bradman *
Sir I. V. A. Richards ^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers ^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

W. Hammond
R. Hadlee

 

[centurymaker]

I like to have variety in attack.. so either

-McGrath or Hadlee --both very accurate bowlers but prefer Mcgrath as he bowled on flatter pitches

-Marshall or Steyn --both are aggressive, short and skiddy kind of bowlers but prefer Marshall as Steyn can leak runs

-Ambrose --his height & bowling style makes him somewhat unplayable

-If pitch was a road I'd play Imran Khan as the 5th bowler/all-rounder instead of Viv Richards

Gavaskar
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards / Imran Khan
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
Ambrose
McGrath

 

[kyear2]

I like to have variety in attack.. so either

-McGrath or Hadlee --both very accurate bowlers but prefer Mcgrath as he bowled on flatter pitches

-Marshall or Steyn --both are aggressive, short and skiddy kind of bowlers but prefer Marshall as Steyn can leak runs

-Ambrose --his height & bowling style makes him somewhat unplayable

-If pitch was a road I'd play Imran Khan as the 5th bowler/all-rounder instead of Viv Richards

Gavaskar
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards / Imran Khan
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
Ambrose
McGrath

I still like to play both Marshall and Steyn and use Steyn with the older ball for his reverse swing. Nice to see someone actually choose Amby one in a while. Do agree that I wouldn't play McGrath and Hadlee together

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

I like to have variety in attack.. so either

-McGrath or Hadlee --both very accurate bowlers but prefer Mcgrath as he bowled on flatter pitches

-Marshall or Steyn --both are aggressive, short and skiddy kind of bowlers but prefer Marshall as Steyn can leak runs

-Ambrose --his height & bowling style makes him somewhat unplayable

-If pitch was a road I'd play Imran Khan as the 5th bowler/all-rounder instead of Viv Richards

Gavaskar
Hobbs
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards / Imran Khan
Gilchrist
Warne
Marshall
Ambrose
McGrath

Marshall over Warne (as a batsman)

 

[Red]

Sir Leonard Hutton
Sunil Gavaskar ^
Sir Donald Bradman *
Sir I. V. A. Richards ^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers ^(5)
Adam Gilchrist +
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Shane Warne (4)
Dale Steyn (3)
Glenn McGrath (2)

W. Hammond
R. Hadlee

Pretty much agree but I’d bat Sachin at 4 and Viv at 5.

Any two of Hobbs, Hutton and Gavaskar.

And I’d have Wasim over Steyn as I like the left arm variety and the ability to bowl with the old ball (which I know Steyn also possessed)

 

[kyear2]

Pretty much agree but I’d bat Sachin at 4 and Viv at 5.

Any two of Hobbs, Hutton and Gavaskar.

And I’d have Wasim over Steyn as I like the left arm variety and the ability to bowl with the old ball (which I know Steyn also possessed)

I changed up Viv vs Sachin because I want Viv in as early as possible to one handle the fast bowlers and to take the game by the collar as early as possible, but not anything I would fight over.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

ATG Xi

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Smith
Richards
Sobers (5)
Gilchrist+
Imran (4)
Marshall (1)
O’Reilly (3)
McGrath (2)

Murali,Sutcliffe

Murali to get in the team ahead of any of 2Ms in a turner.

Sutcliffe #3 opener of all time after 2Hs to replace Hutton if I change my mind to see Hobbs/Sutcliffe together.

To sum up, I have the 2 greatest opening batsman of all time to open.3 and 4 is occupied by Bradman and the best since Bradman. Carnage of Viv,Sobers,Gilchrist follows next. I would personally have Sobers at 5 and Richards at 6.

My bowling attack consists of Imran,Marshall, O’Reilly, McGrath.3 ATG quick plus Tiger!
Sobers can bowl few if needed which I do not think would.

 

[TheJediBrah]

O'Reilly underutilised in ATG teams

 

[ankitj]

Hmm - thinking about an XI of players who were ATGs in first class - but either failed at tests/only played limited matches.

Off the top of my head theres blokes like Richards and Procter, Bevan and Ramprakash, hell even WG Grace.

Probs do some research on this after work tonight..

Tich Freeman? He has basically every important bowling record in FC cricket,and the gap between him and second place in sone of the records is unbelievable. Statistically, he's the greatest fc bowler ever by a mile. But he was looked at as a bit of a test flop relatively despite his averages being ok.

English FC spammers need to be excluded from this exercise.

 

[kyear2]

Have we reached a point where an Australian team is strong enough to evenly compete with an ATG XI

Australian XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Ricky Ponting
Allan Border / Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Pat Cummins
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

SC XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sangakkara
Imran
Jadeja
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

ROW XI

Hobbs
Hutton
Richards
Hammond
Lara
Sobers
Knott
Hadlee
Marshall
Tayfield
Steyn

 

[shortpitched713]

We never "reached" that point, it always existed as long as Bradman existed. A decent Bradman team is odds on to beat even a ROW AT XI, if you accept his stats at face value.

 

[kyear2]

We never "reached" that point, it always existed as long as Bradman existed. A decent Bradman team is odds on to beat even a ROW AT XI, if you accept his stats at face value.

Bradman didn't even win every game he played, but ok.
And no I principally don't.

 

[shortpitched713]

Being odds on favorites is different than "win every game you play".

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Have we reached a point where an Australian team is strong enough to evenly compete with an ATG XI

Australian XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Ricky Ponting
Allan Border / Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Pat Cummins
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

SC XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sangakkara
Imran
Jadeja
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

ROW XI

Hobbs
Hutton
Richards
Hammond
Lara
Sobers
Knott
Hadlee
Marshall
Tayfield
Steyn

This is a better SC XI

Gavaskar
Dravid
Younis
Sachin
Miandad
Sangakkara +
Imran (c)
Kapil
Wasim
Murali
Waqar

For the ROW XI

Barnes/Laker in place of Tayfield and Kallis for Hammond.

 

[kyear2]

This is a better SC XI

Gavaskar
Dravid
Younis
Sachin
Miandad
Sangakkara +
Imran (c)
Kapil
Wasim
Murali
Waqar

For the ROW XI

Barnes/Laker in place of Tayfield and Kallis for Hammond.

I debated Kapil, but figured most would want two spinners and last time I used Kumble some disagreed with it .

Barnes wasn't a spinner and if I going with another pacer it would be Ambrose. Hammond and Kallis are so very similar, but most rate Hammond higher as a batsman.

 

[Slifer]

Have we reached a point where an Australian team is strong enough to evenly compete with an ATG XI

Australian XI

Bobby Simpson
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Steve Smith
Ricky Ponting
Allan Border / Keith Miller
Adam Gilchrist
Shane Warne
Pat Cummins
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

SC XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Sangakkara
Imran
Jadeja
Wasim
Waqar
Muralitharan

ROW XI

Hobbs
Hutton
Richards
Hammond
Lara
Sobers
Knott
Hadlee
Marshall
Tayfield
Steyn

Evenly compete but I don't think they're winning in the WI or India with or without Bradman. And I have my justifications to back it up.