Greater cricketer: Wasim Akram or Jacques Kallis

[subshakerz]

This is horrible that CW can actually hold Kallis that highly.

 

[kyear2]

This is horrible that CW can actually hold Kallis that highly.

Why?

He is averages 55 with the bat, a brilliant slip fielder and a more than good enough test calibre first change bowler.

 

[CricAddict]

This is horrible that CW can actually hold Kallis that highly.

It is extremely close though. Akram is the best left arm pacer ever while Kallis is the 2nd or 3rd best all-rounder ever along with Imran. So, it comes to the second and third disciplines. Kallis's bowling is better than Akram's batting which is also close though. But Kallis's fielding easily wins over Akram's.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Why?

He is averages 55 with the bat, a brilliant slip fielder and a more than good enough test calibre first change bowler.

Isn't in Wasim vs Trueman thread, you were arguing that fielding didn't affect Wasim bowling stats?

 

[kyear2]

Isn't in Wasim vs Trueman thread, you were arguing that fielding didn't affect Wasim bowling stats?

First of all, what I said was it was difficult to quantify how much to adjust his average by.

And what does that have to do with my statement? Genuine question.

 

[subshakerz]

Why?

He is averages 55 with the bat, a brilliant slip fielder and a more than good enough test calibre first change bowler.

Kallis' bowling is overrated, not that much more than Wasim with the bat.

Wasim with ball is a bonafide top tier ATG while Kallis is below that for me with the bat.

 

[subshakerz]

It is extremely close though. Akram is the best left arm pacer ever while Kallis is the 2nd or 3rd best all-rounder ever along with Imran. So, it comes to the second and third disciplines. Kallis's bowling is better than Akram's batting which is also close though. But Kallis's fielding easily wins over Akram's.

He isn't. We have established that his bowling isn't at that level and his sheer volume of tests played makes his bowling output look better. Sobers, Imran and Miller are clearly better, Hadlee too frankly.

Wasim is a top ten pacer while Kallis to me doesn't belong in the top 20 batters ever.

 

[kyear2]

He isn't. We have established that his bowling isn't at that level and his sheer volume of tests played makes his bowling output look better. Sobers, Imran and Miller are clearly better, Hadlee too frankly.

Wasim is a top ten pacer while Kallis to me doesn't belong in the top 20 batters ever.

Did we?

It is arguable if Wasim is top 10, and how is Kallis with an average of 55 not top 20?

 

[subshakerz]

Did we?

It is arguable if Wasim is top 10, and how is Kallis with an average of 55 not top 20?

I am in the minority on this I admit. I don't take that average seriously and neither should you.

Kallis the bat wasn't an ATG. He wasn't thought of one during his career and retroactively putting him as one is only a CW thing.

 

[anil1405]

I agree. 55 average on flat decks against above average attacks at best doesn't count.

 

[subshakerz]

I agree. 55 average on flat decks against above average attacks at best doesn't count.

Same with Sanga, who I rate ahead of Kallis, but I don't take his 57 average seriously at all.

And others like Yousuf, etc who ended with pretty 50 plus averages in the 2000s.

 

[kyear2]

I am in the minority on this I admit. I don't take that average seriously and neither should you.

Kallis the bat wasn't an ATG. He wasn't thought of one during his career and retroactively putting him as one is only a CW thing.

That's what some say about another all rounder, and then defenders get offended.

I'm not a fan of his batting, as some have said, he hardly looked to take over a game. But to average 55 is impressive.

 

[anil1405]

Same with Sanga, who I rate ahead of Kallis, but I don't take his 57 average seriously at all.

And others like Yousuf, etc who ended with pretty 50 plus averages in the 2000s.

Yes and on the contrary Wasim was the lone bowling warrior of his side who swung the ball impeccably in a fair manner and won many games for his side single handedly. So he is way better than Kallis.

 

[subshakerz]

That's what some say about another all rounder, and then defenders get offended.

I'm not a fan of his batting, as some have said, he hardly looked to take over a game. But to average 55 is impressive.

The difference for Imran is that on CW we largely see Imran as a top 5 ATGer, not top 10 like most cricket punditry.

With Kallis, he was never seen as an ATG bat in his playing days, just an ATG allrounder. In fact, at virtually no point in his career was he unanimously considered the best bat in the world, even at his peak. In fact, I would probably rate Amla as a better bat during Kallis' second peak 2010 onwards

His 55 average can still make him a great, it doesn't make him an ATG though.

 

[ZK$]

Kallis’s average actually goes up when you adjust for conditions and eras.

 

[kyear2]

I am in the minority on this I admit. I don't take that average seriously and neither should you.

Kallis the bat wasn't an ATG. He wasn't thought of one during his career and retroactively putting him as one is only a CW thing.

 

[subshakerz]

That's a chat on all-rounders not specialists or overall cricketers.

 

[kyear2]

I am in the minority on this I admit. I don't take that average seriously and neither should you.

Kallis the bat wasn't an ATG. He wasn't thought of one during his career and retroactively putting him as one is only a CW thing.

What I'm saying is, these almost exact words were also used to describe Imran (as an all rounder), and if you don't believe me, feel free to read through the Imran vs Sobers thread.
In this instance it isn't true though however, everytime SA came to the Caribbean there were comparisons to Sobers, primarily by non WI commentators. The same often happened in other countries as well and he was referred to as a great all rounder or cricketer.

 

[kyear2]

That's a chat on all-rounders not specialists.

Yet at the end Chappelli rated the all-rounders Sobers, Kallis, Miller, Imran, Botham
Proctor rated them: Sobers, Kallis, Botham, Imran, Hadlee.

How is he rated this high if they didn't rate him as a batsman.

 

[ZK$]

Yeah, Imran isn’t really rated any higher than Kallis as a cricketer by peers and pundits. If anything, Kallis might be rated slightly higher. I don’t think these ratings really matter though.