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Imran Khan vs Shane Warne (as bowlers)

Who was the better Test bowler

  • Imran

  • Warne

Results are only viewable after voting.
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
BazBall21 said:
I'll type it out now from memory, be prepared for some slight English bias...

1) Don Bradman
2) WG Grace
3) Garfield Sobers
4) Shane Warne
5) Jack Hobbs
6) Sachin Tendulkar
7) Sydney Barnes
8) Walter Hammond
9) Vivian Richards
10) Adam Gilchrist

11) Malcolm Marshall
12) Glenn McGrath
13) Muttiah Muralitharan
14) Imran Khan
15) Wilfred Rhodes
16) Keith Miller
17) Len Hutton
18) Ian Botham
19) Dennis Lillee
20) George Headley
21) Denis Compton
22) Fred Trueman
23) Bill O'Reilly
24) Brian Lara
25) Richard Hadlee
26) Sunil Gavaskar
27) Frederick Spofforth
28) Barry Richards
29) Alec Bedser
30) Victor Trumper
31) Ray Lindwall
32) Everton Weekes
33) Jim Laker
34) Wasim Akram
35) Kumar Singh Ranjithsingh
36) Waqar Younis
37) Graeme Pollock
38) Greg Chappell
39) Frank Worrell
40) Frank Woolley
41) Richie Benaud
42) Peter May
43) Herbert Sutcliffe
44) Graham Gooch
45) Clyde Walcott
46) Ken Barrington
47) Ricky Ponting
48) Kapil Dev
49) Harold Larwood
50) George Lohmann.
51) Curtly Ambrose
52) Jacques Kallis
53) Geoffrey Boycott
54) Clarrie Grimmett
55) Allan Border
56) Learie Constantine
57) Javed Miandad
58) Kumar Sangakkara
59) Hedley Verity
60) Kevin Pietersen
61) Arthur Shrewsbury
62) Bishen Bedi
63) Steve Waugh
64) Les Ames
65) Stanley McCabe
66) John Snow
67) Sanath Jayasuriya
68) Mike Proctor
69) Alan Knott
70) David Gower
71) Jack Gregory
72) Clive Lloyd
73) Martin Donnelly
74) Rahul Dravid
75) Ted Dexter
76) Andy Flower
77) Maurice Tate
78) Colin Cowdrey
79) Mahela Jayawardene
80) CB Fry
81) Bill Ponsford
82) Andrew Flintoff
83) Allan Donald
84) Gilbert Jessop
85) Michael Holding
86) Zaheer Abbas
87) Neil Harvey
88) Abdul Qadir
89) Brian Statham
90) Lance Gibbs
91) Ian Healy
92) Courtney Walsh
93) Graeme Smith
94) Virender Sehwag
95) Charlie Turner
96) Vijay Merchant
97) Shaun Pollock
98) Martin Crowe
99) Anil Kumble
100) Charles Macartney

This list was published in the summer of 2009.
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Yeah Hadlee at number 25 is absurd. Even I'd agree he's a better cricketer than Marshall not to mention everyone in the top ten with the exception of Sobers, Bradman and Grace.
 
trundler

trundler

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kyear2 said:
You do realize CMJ has Imran at 14, a vid I posted in the other thread had Ian Chappell and Procter both rate Imran the 4th of 5th best all rounder and both had Sobers 1st.
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Horrendous list tbh. Too many English HTBs in there. Just a regurgitation of the media hype circus.
kyear2 said:
Why is it so hard for you to understand that everyone doesn't share you opinion. You're entitled to yours as I am to mine.
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Yeah but your opinions are contradictory. You can be wrong as long as you're consistent with it. You're rating Sobers over Bradman based on all round skill but you have the next best all rounder who is the only one comparable to him way down the list. You also other cricketers rated higher than is warranted based solely on primary skill. It's just a bad list.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
I'm going to stick to test cricket to avoid controversy over Grace.

1) Don Bradman - what can you say?

2) Garry Sobers - top 5 batter of all time, handy versatile bowler and possibly the greatest fielder of his time. Once in a lifetime cricketer.

3) Imran Khan - the goat on slow low roads, a force to be reckoned with outside Asia also, a very decent batter, and one of the all-time great captains. Finest cricketer of the modern era in my view.

4) Sachin Tendulkar - most complete batter of the modern era and did it for twenty-four years.

5) Jack Hobbs - the undisputed wet wickets master that scored a truck-load of runs over a crazy-long period of time.

6) Richard Hadlee - near-bullet proof bowling record in what was at times a one-man attack and a very handy lower-order batter.

7) Malcolm Marshall - the greatest of all the WI quicks, boasting a mighty-impressive WPM despite all the competition, conquered all opposition and conditions in the process.

8) Glenn McGrath - remorselessly efficient bowler that seemed to have a hold over virtually every batter of his time no matter what the conditions were like on the day.

9) Sydney Barnes - a slightly romantic, "out there" pick perhaps but he is likely the second most dominant test cricketer relative to peers behind Bradman.

10) Keith Miller - my favourite cricketer of all time. His robust figures, his attacking style, and the legend surrounding his personality to go with it.
 
trundler

trundler

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The Sean said:
:wub:
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I'll use this as a segue to post my most nuclear current opinion:

CW simultaneously overrates people who had a minimal impact with their secondary skill (someone who batted 8 or lower or bowled <20 overs per game) while underrating cricketers who actually contribute meaningfully with bat and ball (Miller, Botham, even Cairns) just because of prettier averages for the former.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
It is quite possible due to team structure to rate someone (e.g Miller) extremely highly but then not have him in your all time XI.

For example, in the NBA, Magic is the best point guard ever imo but he doesn’t make my starting 5.

I like these little quirks.

Also, I have no problems with CMJ including the likes of Barry Richards and Mike Procter (who is actually my all time favourite player - despite playing in the colour tv era) in his list - no doubt they were great cricketers. What I do have a problem with is when someone specifically posts a test XI or picks a list of specifically greatest test players and included them.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
trundler said:
Horrendous list tbh. Too many English HTBs in there. Just a regurgitation of the media hype circus.

Yeah but your opinions are contradictory. You can be wrong as long as you're consistent with it. You're rating Sobers over Bradman based on all round skill but you have the next best all rounder who is the only one comparable to him way down the list. You also other cricketers rated higher than is warranted based solely on primary skill. It's just a bad list.
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Ok, so I'll explain. As I've explained as recently as a few hours ago on another thread, I rate some skills higher than others. You rate bowling all rounder's highly, I don't. Also I rate Sobers skills in the order that I listed them, that my be contrary and wrong to you, but it's my opinion, to which I am entitled. I also believe that Sobers bowled to the detriment of his batting and I rate him (and others) closer to Bradman than anyone here.
So if you're the second / third best batsman, can catch like Hammond and provide test standard bowling to boot, then yes.
I also value winning, and while that may not seem fair, as I said when I was explaining why McGrath and Marshall were in my big three of bowlers, they get the edge because the were the driving force behind the two greatest teams in history. Again, you don't have to agree. But ask why Brady is ahead of Elway, Marino, Rogers.
Hobbs was the greatest opener of all time, Tendulkar is the other batsman in the mix for second best bat of all time, Richards and Warne made the Wisden top 5 and while I think they are a bit over stated, even in this poll Warne eclipses Imran. Gilchrist is also an all rounder and changed an entire position requirement.

So that's my justification for my top 10, that you'll still disagree with.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Captain
trundler said:
Horrendous list tbh. Too many English HTBs in there. Just a regurgitation of the media hype circus.

Yeah but your opinions are contradictory. You can be wrong as long as you're consistent with it. You're rating Sobers over Bradman based on all round skill but you have the next best all rounder who is the only one comparable to him way down the list. You also other cricketers rated higher than is warranted based solely on primary skill. It's just a bad list.
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Horrendous list maybe, but wait until you see Woodcock's from the late 90s...
 
trundler

trundler

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kyear2 said:
Ok, so I'll explain. As I've explained as recently as a few hours ago on another thread, I rate some skills higher than others. You rate bowling all rounder's highly, I don't. Also I rate Sobers skills in the order that I listed them, that my be contrary and wrong to you, but it's my opinion, to which I am entitled. I also believe that Sobers bowled to the detriment of his batting and I rate him (and others) closer to Bradman than anyone here.
So if you're the second / third best batsman, can catch like Hammond and provide test standard bowling to boot, then yes.
I also value winning, and while that may not seem fair, as I said when I was explaining why McGrath and Marshall were in my big three of bowlers, they get the edge because the were the driving force behind the two greatest teams in history. Again, you don't have to agree. But ask why Brady is ahead of Elway, Marino, Rogers.
Hobbs was the greatest opener of all time, Tendulkar is the other batsman in the mix for second best bat of all time, Richards and Warne made the Wisden top 5 and while I think they are a bit over stated, even in this poll Warne eclipses Imran. Gilchrist is also an all rounder and changed an entire position requirement.

So that's my justification for my top 10, that you'll still disagree with.
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Imran and Miller weren't bowling all rounders. Having better teammates is an awful criteria for rating someone higher. Also, you're making a lot of contextual allowances to Sobers which you wouldn't for other cricketers (resorting to X player did badly because average > than or < arbitrary criteria overall). I am not against that obviously but worth pointing out the dual standard. And yes, Richards and Warne making the Wisden top 5 over Imran was ridiculous. Nobody takes pundit consensus seriously except when it suits them. Otherwise Lillee and Wasim are the greatest quicks ever.

All top 10s posted so far better than Kyear2's tbh.
 
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