Ravichandran Ashwin vs Derek Underwood

[Majestic]

Ashwin is in the league of Richie Benaud with both bowl and bat. It's disrespectful comparing him with guys like Lance Gibbs and Derek Underwood.

 

[Himannv]

Derek Underwood and it’s not close.

 

[Migara]

Good one. I think Underwood, Gibbs, Bedi and Chandra from that era are all very close.

Underwood and Chanra were the ones who were at top. Other two are little lesset.

 

[Migara]

Yeah Ashwin on uncovered wet pitches would be a cheat code .

More like Kumble.

 

[peterhrt]

Good one. I think Underwood, Gibbs, Bedi and Chandra from that era are all very close.

In June 1975 five leading English cricket writers got together to select a current World XI for The Daily Telegraph Magazine. They were EW Swanton, John Woodcock, Ian Peebles, Michael Melford and Crawford White. In addition to the Telegraph, The Times, Sunday Times and Daily Express were represented. It is a snapshot of thinking at the time, at least in England.

Six names were agreed by all five judges: Barry Richards ("unanimously accepted finest opening batsman in the world"), Clive Lloyd, Greg Chappell, Knott, Lillee and Bedi.

Procter would have been another but was not fully fit. Sobers was also mentioned but not due to play any first-class cricket that summer. The judges still wanted an all-rounder and picked Greig.

Melford favoured Roberts over Thomson as he bowled a fuller length. Peebles, White and Swanton liked fast bowlers hunting in pairs and went for Thomson to partner Lillee. Rather than select all three, the writers preferred a wrist spinner for variety and chose Chandra as the best "on his day".

Boycott was deemed to have ruled himself out by opting out of Test cricket. Instead "Barlow's credentials as dangerous outswing bowler, high-class bat, excellent slipper, and, not least, highly pugnacious competitor, won him the place at Richards's side." The South Africans were still regarded as the equivalent of Test cricketers in the mid-1970s. Boycott wasn't, even though he had appeared much more recently.

Before deciding on the remaining batsman, the judges took a look at the fielding which was already well covered with Barlow, Chappell, Greig and Richards in close and Lloyd great anywhere. They considered Graeme Pollock, Walters, Asif Iqbal and Kallicharran. Also Fredericks and Redpath as possible openers with Barlow dropping down to number three. In the end they went for Kallicharran, helped by his left-handedness. Asif was twelfth man and substitute fielder. Lloyd was captain.

Despite Swanton's Kent connections, there was no mention of Underwood. Nor Gavaskar.

Team: Barry Richards, Barlow, Kallicharran, Greg Chappell, LLoyd*, Greig, Knott+, Lillee, Thomson, Bedi, Chandrasekhar. 12th man: Asif Iqbal.

 

[Migara]

Bedi over Underwood is meh.

 

[BazBall21]

In June 1975 five leading English cricket writers got together to select a current World XI for The Daily Telegraph Magazine. They were EW Swanton, John Woodcock, Ian Peebles, Michael Melford and Crawford White. In addition to the Telegraph, The Times, Sunday Times and Daily Express were represented. It is a snapshot of thinking at the time, at least in England.

Six names were agreed by all five judges: Barry Richards ("unanimously accepted finest opening batsman in the world"), Clive Lloyd, Greg Chappell, Knott, Lillee and Bedi.

Procter would have been another but was not fully fit. Sobers was also mentioned but not due to play any first-class cricket that summer. The judges still wanted an all-rounder and picked Greig.

Melford favoured Roberts over Thomson as he bowled a fuller length. Peebles, White and Swanton liked fast bowlers hunting in pairs and went for Thomson to partner Lillee. Rather than select all three, the writers preferred a wrist spinner for variety and chose Chandra as the best "on his day".

Boycott was deemed to have ruled himself out by opting out of Test cricket. Instead "Barlow's credentials as dangerous outswing bowler, high-class bat, excellent slipper, and, not least, highly pugnacious competitor, won him the place at Richards's side." The South Africans were still regarded as the equivalent of Test cricketers in the mid-1970s. Boycott wasn't, even though he had appeared much more recently.

Before deciding on the remaining batsman, the judges took a look at the fielding which was already well covered with Barlow, Chappell, Greig and Richards in close and Lloyd great anywhere. They considered Graeme Pollock, Walters, Asif Iqbal and Kallicharran. Also Fredericks and Redpath as possible openers with Barlow dropping down to number three. In the end they went for Kallicharran, helped by his left-handedness. Asif was twelfth man and substitute fielder. Lloyd was captain.

Despite Swanton's Kent connections, there was no mention of Underwood. Nor Gavaskar.

Team: Barry Richards, Barlow, Kallicharran, Greg Chappell, LLoyd*, Greig, Knott+, Lillee, Thomson, Bedi, Chandrasekhar. 12th man: Asif Iqbal.

Yes. The English cricket media didn't back Underwood anywhere close to the same extent they've backed many other England players with similar levels of success.
His unorthodoxy maybe contributed to suspiciouns that he was a conditions-dependent bowler. West Indies had some devastating players of spin in the late 60s-70s and they generally did well against Derek. I generally get the impression that the English media liked Bedi the most out of the four.

 

[BazBall21]

Underwood and Chanra were the ones who were at top. Other two are little lesset.

Underwood and Chandra had kinder pitches at home than Gibbs.

 

[Migara]

Yes. The English cricket media didn't back Underwood anywhere close to the same extent they've backed many other England players with similar levels of success.
His unorthodoxy maybe contributed to suspiciouns that he was a conditions-dependent bowler. West Indies had some devastating players of spin in the late 60s-70s and they generally did well against Derek. I generally get the impression that the English media liked Bedi the most out of the four.

Underwood and Chandra were the ones who were capable of producing that unplayable delivery even on a marble surface.

 

[Migara]

Underwood and Chandra had kinder pitches at home than Gibbs.

Gibbs did not have to bowl to Klaicharan and Lloyd too.

 

[BazBall21]

Gibbs did not have to bowl to Klaicharan and Lloyd too.

Yeah, but there were some good players of spin in Derek and Chandra's teams too. WI were aggressive which posed a slightly unique challenge. But Boycott, Cowdrey, Barrington etc were elite against spin. Chandra and Gibbs bowled to each of them.

 

[peterhrt]

I generally get the impression that the English media liked Bedi the most out of the four.

Yes definitely. Bedi was also rated highest by contemporary players for his variations of flight and spin on good pitches. Barry Richards said he was the bowler who caused him most problems and would rather face Lillee and Thomson.

Bedi also took more first-class wickets than anyone during the 1970s.

 

[peterhrt]

Gibbs did not have to bowl to Klaicharan and Lloyd too.

Ian Chappell rated Prasanna ahead of Gibbs as an off-spinner, again due to flight/variation on good pitches. It was probably a minority view though.

Gibbs was uncomfortable bowling round the wicket before he gained experience in county cricket.

 

[BazBall21]

Ian Chappell rated Prasanna ahead of Gibbs as an off-spinner, again due to flight/variation on good pitches. It was probably a minority view though.

Gibbs was uncomfortable bowling round the wicket before he gained experience in county cricket.

Who do you rate as the best of the quartet? It's very difficult. Can make a very good case for each of them...

 

[peterhrt]

Who do you rate as the best of the quartet? It's very difficult. Can make a very good case for each of them...

My order would be Bedi, Gibbs, Chandrasekhar, Underwood. Next would be Prasanna.

Bedi looked a great bowler, had all the variations, and didn't rely on the pitch for assistance. Doesn't seem to be rated as highly on the sub-continent. Maybe something to do with his outspoken opinions.

Gibbs got a lot of overspin and catches at short-leg. Chandra was high-risk. Could bowl rubbish but also win matches on good pitches. The only bowler Viv Richards admitted not liking facing.

On a bad wicket Underwood would be first. Too quick to get down to, bowled from wide of the crease angling in at the pads. The odd one would turn so quickly it was more or less unplayable. Could look ordinary on good wickets when he was purely a defensive bowler. Reputation has grown thanks to Statsguru.

 

[Migara]

My order would be Bedi, Gibbs, Chandrasekhar, Underwood. Next would be Prasanna.

Bedi looked a great bowler, had all the variations, and didn't rely on the pitch for assistance. Doesn't seem to be rated as highly on the sub-continent. Maybe something to do with his outspoken opinions.

Gibbs got a lot of overspin and catches at short-leg. Chandra was high-risk. Could bowl rubbish but also win matches on good pitches. The only bowler Viv Richards admitted not liking facing.

On a bad wicket Underwood would be first. Too quick to get down to, bowled from wide of the crease angling in at the pads. The odd one would turn so quickly it was more or less unplayable. Could look ordinary on good wickets when he was purely a defensive bowler. Reputation has grown thanks to Statsguru.

Definite lack of respect to Chandrashekar. He was everything Underwood was plus ability to bowl ridiculously good balls on any surface.

 

[Socerer 01]

Definite lack of respect to Chandrashekar. He was everything Underwood was plus ability to bowl ridiculously good balls on any surface.

Chandra also had days where he was very bad which may skew opinions but he was a real match winner away

 

[BazBall21]

Bedi had the better stability but Chandra has the slightly better results away from home. His record in overseas wins in insane.

 

[Johan]

Hm this could use another discussion.