Imran Khan vs Dale Steyn

[subshakerz]

So all they need to do is play past their peak?

What?

 

[Kirkut]

Imran in the 1980 decade played 16 test series. He was man of the series in half of those.

That includes three consecutive series against the WI, two in England, one in Australia and one in India.

Reached the highest bowler rating of any post-war bowler. Then got injured and scored well as a pure bat before returning as a bowler to the same success.

No modern cricketer can touch that level of performance in their peak.

If you're only comparing peaks then peak Shoaib > peak Imran and Marshall.

Not the statistical peak, but the "that is the scary stuff I don't wanna face" peak.

 

[subshakerz]

If you're only comparing peaks then peak Shoaib > peak Imran and Marshall.

Not the statistical peak, but the "that is the scary stuff I don't wanna face" peak.

Shoaib was scary but couldnt last more than 1 test at a time.

 

[number11]

Imran was an absolute monster in his prime. Has any quick ever had a better peak? He was unplayable in the early 80s.

 

[Silver Silva]

I do remember Imran in the early 80s and he was fantastic. I think he is underrated as an all-rounder. A very fine bowler in his own right and a good test match middle order player. He was easily the best of the 1980s quartet of himself, Kapil, Botham and Hadlee. However, as a bowler alone, he was a bit behind Steyn. Steyn twice won series in Australia and was just the most fluent, rhythmic bowler to watch for so long.

Imran Khan had way more skills than Steyn

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I do remember Imran in the early 80s and he was fantastic. I think he is underrated as an all-rounder. A very fine bowler in his own right and a good test match middle order player. He was easily the best of the 1980s quartet of himself, Kapil, Botham and Hadlee. However, as a bowler alone, he was a bit behind Steyn. Steyn twice won series in Australia and was just the most fluent, rhythmic bowler to watch for so long.

You rate Imran above Hadlee as a bowler?

 

[number11]

You rate Imran above Hadlee as a bowler?

Yes. Imran was quicker and had more of that dog in him. Hadlee was a one man band, but Imran was as skillful and much nastier. Imran is top trumps.

 

[Chin Music]

You rate Imran above Hadlee as a bowler?

Difficult one. I would rate Imran higher in Asia but in the rest of the world, Hadlee.

 

[trundler]

Difficult one. I would rate Imran higher in Asia but in the rest of the world, Hadlee.

Imran was better in England.

 

[kyear2]

Yes. Imran was quicker and had more of that dog in him. Hadlee was a one man band, but Imran was as skillful and much nastier. Imran is top trumps.

There were 3 bowlers that due to consistency and brilliance everywhere that separate themselves from the pack
I normally rate them
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Then they are the other two than I rank in the top tier along with them for different but equivocal reasons.

Steyn
Ambrose

The next tier, 6 to about 12 / 15 is more more convoluted and harder to rate in any order and is really subjective. Imran for me falls in that next tier and really can't be compared to Hadlee for consistency and all round exceptionalism.

Imran averaged under 24 vs only two countries and averaged under 24 in none other than Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

He averaged 19 with a strike rate of 59 at home, 28 / 67 in Australia, 24 / 62 in England, 28 /61 in India, 26 / 75 in New Zealand and 25 / 45 in the West Indies.

Hadlee averaged 22 / 53 at home and 21 / 48 away, there really isn't much comparison.

I would ask why Imran was so great in the tougher home conditions but everyone here knows, but just pretends that those conditions didn't exist.

 

[Slifer]

There were 3 bowlers that due to consistency and brilliance everywhere that separate themselves from the pack
I normally rate them
Marshall
McGrath

Then they are the other two than I rank in the top tier along with them for different but equivocal reasons.

Steyn
Ambrose

The next tier, 6 to about 12 / 15 is more more convoluted and harder to rate in any order and is really subjective. Imran for me falls in that next tier and really can't be compared to Hadlee for consistency and all round exceptionalism.

Imran averaged under 24 vs only two countries and averaged under 24 in none other than Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

He averaged 19 with a strike rate of 59 at home, 28 / 67 in Australia, 24 / 62 in England, 28 /61 in India, 26 / 75 in New Zealand and 25 / 45 in the West Indies.

Hadlee averaged 22 / 53 at home and 21 / 48 away, there really isn't much comparison.

I would ask why Imran was so great in the tougher home conditions but everyone here knows, but just pretends that those conditions didn't exist.

Sorry to nitpick Imran's SR at home was 47, otherwise carry on.

 

[subshakerz]

There were 3 bowlers that due to consistency and brilliance everywhere that separate themselves from the pack
I normally rate them
Marshall
McGrath

Then they are the other two than I rank in the top tier along with them for different but equivocal reasons.

Steyn
Ambrose

The next tier, 6 to about 12 / 15 is more more convoluted and harder to rate in any order and is really subjective. Imran for me falls in that next tier and really can't be compared to Hadlee for consistency and all round exceptionalism.

Imran averaged under 24 vs only two countries and averaged under 24 in none other than Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

He averaged 19 with a strike rate of 59 at home, 28 / 67 in Australia, 24 / 62 in England, 28 /61 in India, 26 / 75 in New Zealand and 25 / 45 in the West Indies.

Hadlee averaged 22 / 53 at home and 21 / 48 away, there really isn't much comparison.

I would ask why Imran was so great in the tougher home conditions but everyone here knows, but just pretends that those conditions didn't exist.

Isn't Hadlee in your first tier?

Your critique of Imran applies to Steyn too, no?

 

[kyear2]

Isn't Hadlee in your first tier?

Your critique of Imran applies to Steyn too, no?

Yes, sorry Hadlee was to be there right after McGrath

 

[kyear2]

Isn't Hadlee in your first tier?

Your critique of Imran applies to Steyn too, no?

To a certain extent, but Steyn's was less drastic and we know why Steyn was better at home.
In the Graeme Smith conversation in another thread the discussion was centred around how tough his home conditions were.

 

[subshakerz]

To a certain extent, but Steyn's was less drastic and we know why Steyn was better at home.
In the Graeme Smith conversation in another thread the discussion was centred around how tough his home conditions were.

How was Steyn less drastic?

You are penalizing Imran for lack of 'consistency and all round exceptionalism' whereas Steyn averaged 26 in NZ, 28 in Australia, 30 in SL, 31 in England and 32 in the UAE? Without minnows, the difference is even more stark.

Clearly you are not being consistent.

 

[trundler]

How was Steyn less drastic?

You are penalizing Imran for lack of 'consistency and all round exceptionalism' whereas Steyn averaged 26 in NZ, 28 in Australia, 30 in SL, 31 in England and 32 in the UAE? Without minnows, the difference is even more stark.

Clearly you are not being consistent.

He is penalising Imran for a crazy home record which is even dumber.

 

[Slifer]

He is penalising Imran for a crazy home record which is even dumber.

No. What he actually said was, that people know why Imran had such an amazing record at home but pretend like they don't. I assume it's either due to the messed up home umpiring or ball tampering. Notice I said assume, because I don't actually know what kyear meant....

 

[trundler]

No. What he actually said was, that people know why Imran had such an amazing record at home but pretend like they don't. I assume it's either due to the messed up home umpiring or ball tampering. Notice I said assume, because I don't actually know what kyear meant....

The other home pace bowlers were still ****. Why didn't bad umpiring benefit Sarfraz Nawaz so much? When Imran took 40 wickets against India at home the next best was Kapil with 24 and no Pakistani bowler managed 20 wickets in 6 tests. Doesn't make sense for one bloke to be doing all the damage on either side. At other times, Marshall, Wasim etc did well but Imran was still more deadly. His away record before he became a batsman is virtually identical to Steyn. I think Steyn is the better bowler but there is no express bowler who took daddy hauls and had huge series tallies with a clearly better record. The reason why I think Steyn is better is that he was less injury prone in his peak and faced greater batting depth across the world but this is somewhat balanced by Imran doing better against the best team of his time.

I'm also sure you're aware that the reason Imran didn't win his team a series in West Indies is because of blatantly biased umpiring so swings and roundabouts.

 

[subshakerz]

The problem here is certain posters want to pretend Imran was crooked while all the other pacers in the 80s were saints. Do you honestly believe Hadlee and Lillee didn't pick and scratch the seam all the time?

 

[Slifer]

The other home pace bowlers were still ****. Why didn't bad umpiring benefit Sarfraz Nawaz so much? When Imran took 40 wickets against India at home the next best was Kapil with 24 and no Pakistani bowler managed 20 wickets in 6 tests. Doesn't make sense for one bloke to be doing all the damage on either side. At other times, Marshall, Wasim etc did well but Imran was still more deadly. His away record before he became a batsman is virtually identical to Steyn. I think Steyn is the better bowler but there is no express bowler who took daddy hauls and had huge series tallies with a clearly better record. The reason why I think Steyn is better is that he was less injury prone in his peak and faced greater batting depth across the world but this is somewhat balanced by Imran doing better against the best team of his time.

I'm also sure you're aware that the reason Imran didn't win his team a series in West Indies is because of blatantly biased umpiring so swings and roundabouts.

Dude relax if you paid attention you'd see I actually didn't even vote on this head to head. What I wrote is what I assumed Kyear meant.