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Is Bruce Mitchell the greatest clutch bat of all time?

OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Nah its VVS

Also 4th innings stats without context are useless. 4th innings can provide ample opportunity to make the most useless runs imaginable (scoring when the game result is already beyond doubt), unlike runs in the 1st innings which are virtually never useless.
 
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
OverratedSanity said:
Nah its VVS

Also 4th innings stats without context are useless. 4th innings can provide ample opportunity to make the most useless runs imaginable (scoring when the game result is already beyond doubt), unlike runs in the 1st innings which are virtually never useless.
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But Mitchell played for 30's SA. So I don't think he had the opportunity of making useless runs.
 
Silver Silva

Silver Silva

International Regular
Adorable Asshole said:
But Mitchell played for 30's SA. So I don't think he had the opportunity of making useless runs.
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Yeah but bro the game is broken if you can just look at some statistics of a player you never heard about and just slap such a tag on him , it's a great 4th innings record don't get me wrong but context is important..If Adam Voges was not from our time and still averaged 60 playing 90 years ago , I'm pretty sure he'd be talked about as one of the greats just because he played a long time ago.
 
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
Silver Silva said:
Yeah but bro the game is broken if you can just look at some statistics of a player you never heard about and just slap such a tag on him , it's a great 4th innings record don't get me wrong but context is important..If Adam Voges was not from our time and still averaged 60 playing 90 years ago , I'm pretty sure he'd be talked about as one of the greats just because he played a long time ago.
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That tells more about you than Bruce Mitchell tbh.
 
Silver Silva

Silver Silva

International Regular
Adorable Asshole said:
That tells more about you than Bruce Mitchell tbh.
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Sure I know he's an SA opening batsman , but I never watched him play , I don't really know the bowlers he faced besides Bedser and I know he didn't face West Indies or Asian teams because of SA's white team only policy ..All this just leads to just reading off stats which anyone can do . There should be more to it than that before labelling someone clutch player of all time
 
Adorable Asshole

Adorable Asshole

International Regular
Silver Silva said:
Sure I know he's an SA opening batsman , but I never watched him play , I don't really know the bowlers he faced besides Bedser and I know he didn't face West Indies or Asian teams because of SA's white team only policy ..All this just leads to just reading off stats which anyone can do . There should be more to it than that .
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By that reasoning Bradman and Hobbs should also not be rated.
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Silver Silva said:
Yeah but bro the game is broken if you can just look at some statistics of a player you never heard about and just slap such a tag on him , it's a great 4th innings record don't get me wrong but context is important..If Adam Voges was not from our time and still averaged 60 playing 90 years ago , I'm pretty sure he'd be talked about as one of the greats just because he played a long time ago.
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You never heard about Bruce Mitchell? For shame. Go educate yourself on crickets great historical players and come back.
 
Silver Silva

Silver Silva

International Regular
Adorable Asshole said:
By that reasoning Bradman and Hobbs should also not be rated.
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Not at all , these guys you mentioned don't just have impressive records but are rated highly by historians and analysts ..Its not enough to have just a high average there are plenty of players with high averages that don't really get a mention ..

So what , besides a batting average on first glance. Is your reason for calling Mitchell the greatest clutch player of all time ..Nobody on Wisden or cricinfo has Mitchell the top 10 openers of all time so what's your findings ?

Remember if it's greatest of all time. The standard is very high. You are comparing to guys who faced all time great fast bowlers over the years .
 
trundler

trundler

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I don't think 4th innings average is a good measure of clutchness at all. OS already pointed out why and I agree with him. Plus, 4th innings isn't always the toughest time to bat. In NZ, it's close to the best and this is illustrated by NZ batsmen having very high 4th innings averages. Silver Silva touched on why no one person could really do this question justice without due research. You can't just look at averages and go X person was clutch. You'd have to go through scorecards individually, read match reports to get a sense of the conditions and the attack, how the bowlers bowled that day and so on. All this is to ignore the subjectivity around what constitutes clutch. A statistical method would have to be a lot more sophisticated than this too and I really enjoyed @chasingthedon 's series on Impact Runs and @Days of Grace 's best innings lists. Those aren't exactly what we're looking for here but would point us in the right direction a whole lot better than 4th innings averages.
 
Silver Silva

Silver Silva

International Regular
Adorable Asshole said:
But Mitchell played for 30's SA. So I don't think he had the opportunity of making useless runs.
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Bruce Mitchell only had 12 4th innings knocks. And of the 12 , 5 were not outs ..That's why I said you just looked at the average and made a post and if not I apologize. But come on brother there are cricketers out there with triple the amount of 4th innings knocks who have like 4 or 5 hundreds like chase master Younus Khan which should mean a whole lot more ..
 
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