South Africa team selection

[Silver Silva]

It's a two test series for which nobody is going to be given any guarantees that they'll get a starting spot. It's going to be really hard to turn down the amount of money they're going to earn from the SA20 just to take a chance at a test match.

Nobody should be guaranteed a starting spot apart from the skipper and his second in charge, even if there was no T20 tournaments to miss out on that can't be the reasoning surely.

 

[Dendarii]

Nobody should be guaranteed a starting spot apart from the skipper and his second in charge, even if there was no T20 tournaments to miss out on that can't be the reasoning surely.

Why wouldn't it be the reason? Players are going to earn a lot of money from the SA20 (in some cases enough to set them up for life), so why wouldn't they go for that instead of making themselves available for a test series they wouldn't be certain of playing in?

 

[StephenZA]

The problem is the commitment that CSA has made to the franchise owners for the T20s... marquee plays have to choose the T20, they not allowed to choose the Tests even if they wanted to.

 

[Silver Silva]

The problem is the commitment that CSA has made to the franchise owners for the T20s... marquee plays have to choose the T20, they not allowed to choose the Tests even if they wanted to.

Oh okay so it is a contractual obligation, then there is no point discussing player power. All the power is in the hands of the T20 owners, SA have never lost a series to NZ ..Its gonna be a sad way to lose that streak if they send a 3rd string team .

 

[Socerer 01]

Oh okay so it is a contractual obligation, then there is no point discussing player power. All the power is in the hands of the T20 owners, SA have never lost a series to NZ ..Its gonna be a sad way to lose that streak if they send a 3rd string team .

nah it will be funny when they keep that streak and win with a South Africa C side because 3rd string teams get super saiyan powers on away tours as we all know

 

[Dendarii]

The problem is the commitment that CSA has made to the franchise owners for the T20s... marquee plays have to choose the T20, they not allowed to choose the Tests even if they wanted to.

The marquee players might not have a choice, but players like Bedingham or Swanepoel who would potentially be in line for a test place with the marquee players absent would have that choice. So for them it would be the SA20 cash or maybe playing a test, and I think the cash is going to win out.

 

[Socerer 01]

The marquee players might not have a choice, but players like Bedingham or Swanepoel who would potentially be in line for a test place with the marquee players absent would have that choice. So for them it would be the SA20 cash or maybe playing a test, and I think the cash is going to win out.

do they pull out of the auction and then get selected

 

[StephenZA]

The marquee players might not have a choice, but players like Bedingham or Swanepoel who would potentially be in line for a test place with the marquee players absent would have that choice. So for them it would be the SA20 cash or maybe playing a test, and I think the cash is going to win out.

I don't know the exact conditions CSA have agreed with the T20 owners. OF course you as a player have choice to be put in auction or not... but if you accept to be put in auction then maybe you must play the T20 if selected?! And if the players don't know when the Test squad is going to be selected or given real assurances for being selected for test squad when do they decide not to put there names in the T20 hat.

The point here is there is an agreement between CSA and franchise owners that took away player choice.

 

[Stefan9]

The test squad for NZ won't be selected before the auction. Auction takes place in December before the Indian tour.

A player would be takening a big chance at maybe getting a test in place of a T20 squad. He may also burn bridges regarding future SA20 auctions.

 

[Marius]

I have a shocking idea: destroy the soulless T20 competition and advertise a massive test summer

Unfortunately, unless India, England, or Australia are touring hosting Test series normally results in a financial loss.

SA20 may well have saved SA cricket overall, but there are going to be causalities as a result.

 

[StephenZA]

Unfortunately, unless India, England, or Australia are touring hosting Test series normally results in a financial loss.

SA20 may well have saved SA cricket overall, but there are going to be causalities as a result.

It is not going to save SA cricket. Not long run. Put some monies in the coffin for now. Yes. But if you look at WI cricket you can see that over time without a basis of Test cricket the players lose basic cricket skills.

If they keep demoting Test cricket like they are doing in SA for short term gain the game will be dead in its entirety in 10 years.

 

[Marius]

It is not going to save SA cricket. Not long run. Put some monies in the coffin for now. Yes. But if you look at WI cricket you can see that over time without a basis of Test cricket the players lose basic cricket skills.

If they keep demoting Test cricket like they are doing in SA for short term gain the game will be dead in its entirety in 10 years.

NZ hasn't played more than two Tests in a series at home in years and I think in their entire history they have only played one five-Test series, but the game is still strong there. And Pakistan didn't have any home international cricket for however many years it was after that awful terrorist attack, and they are still strong.

SA cricket has had a few tough years and we not out of the woods, but I think they are getting there with putting the right people in place. It's far too early to say this is the death knell of SA cricket, and without the SA20 money the shrinking of the game would have been an inevitability.

 

[Silver Silva]

NZ hasn't played more than two Tests in a series at home in years and I think in their entire history they have only played one five-Test series, but the game is still strong there. And Pakistan didn't have any home international cricket for however many years it was after that awful terrorist attack, and they are still strong.

SA cricket has had a few tough years and we not out of the woods, but I think they are getting there with putting the right people in place. It's far too early to say this is the death knell of SA cricket, and without the SA20 money the shrinking of the game would have been an inevitability.

Yeah but New Zealand is a first world country brother with a strong currency , good resources and no politicians dictating the make up of the side ..

Not a big population nor is cricket the no.1 sport in NZ so they make sure they invest heavily in FC cricket and do the basics of administration right ..

Also if they have a shortage of talent they just tap into the expat community..For example they intergrated Devon Conway and Neil Wagner into their system from your country without a second thought ..
SA has to be careful in its development, a lot of other teams and T20 leagues will not hesitate to pick off your best talent

 

[StephenZA]

NZ hasn't played more than two Tests in a series at home in years and I think in their entire history they have only played one five-Test series, but the game is still strong there. And Pakistan didn't have any home international cricket for however many years it was after that awful terrorist attack, and they are still strong.

SA cricket has had a few tough years and we not out of the woods, but I think they are getting there with putting the right people in place. It's far too early to say this is the death knell of SA cricket, and without the SA20 money the shrinking of the game would have been an inevitability.

CSA coffers where fine until poor administration destroyed it. Along with SA current economic woes. In response they have invested into T20 to try repair the losses. Which is fine. But simultaneously they have also through choice and commitment basically indicated that Test cricket is of very low priority. My stance is that the second attitude of making Test cricket low priority will result in the death of the game. Test cricket needs to maintain a top priority status for the overall good of all cricket in the country.

 

[Marius]

How good would SA 'E' team be?

No 'Dog & Duck XI' for Proteas
JUL 30, 2023
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In exactly a month’s time South Africa will be playing the first of eight white-ball matches against Australia to begin their preparation for the World Cup, beginning with three T20 Internationals before onto the more contextually relevant ODIs.
After the World Cup comes the financially critical tour by India which will keep the game afloat for the next three years while CSA hope the SA20 establishes its footing in solid cash to make the domestic game less reliant on the BCCI sending its national team to South Africa.


India remains desperate to correct one of the few remaining ‘never have’ records in Test cricket by winning the two-Test ‘series’ against the Proteas – they managed a 1-1 share in 2010-11 but have lost the other seven.
But for understandable reasons, to me at least, it is what happens after that which remains uppermost in my mind. Just on the off chance it leads to the end of Test cricket as a serious commodity, not just in South Africa but in several others, too.
In case you missed the last column, or the news regarding the Proteas’ two-Test series against New Zealand scheduled for February next year, a short re-cap: CSA accepted a three-match itinerary presented by New Zealand Cricket many months ago. It included a warm-up match starting on January 29 and Test matches in Mount Maunganui from February 4-8 and Hamilton from 13-17.


Just to clarify. It is not only nationally contracted players (the ‘big names’) whose availability CSA have guaranteed to the SA20 league, but ALL South African players. Which means 58 of the country’s best players, all be it many of them white-ball specialists, would be unavailable for selection for the Tests.
NZC will not, rightly, consider rescheduling their domestic summer which is as tightly packed as every other country’s. And there is even less chance of the SA20 directorship agreeing to squeeze the tournament in order to allow a full-strength squad sufficient time to travel and acclimatise in New Zealand.
For those who did read the previous column, hopelessness may have set in. Apologies for that. While the body is warm, there is always hope. Imagine that South Africa pick a ‘Moneyball’ squad of hasbeens, wannabees and couldavbeens, and actually win – or maybe draw the series in New Zealand.
Such an unlikely event might enable them to persuade the rest of the Test-playing nations that they do, in fact, still value the format and that they will do everything in their power to prevent such a clash happening again in the future. (That will be difficult with Pakistan due to visit South Africa for a full, multi-format tour at the same time in 2024-25.)
South Africa’s predicament, and the way the administration may be perceived if they do send a ‘D’ of ‘E’ team to New Zealand, has been made all the more depressing by watching the quality of Test cricket on display during the Ashes for the last month or so. And the fact that, just a decade ago, the Proteas were the best team in the world having played Test cricket to an ever greater standard than England and Australia for much of the decade which preceded their rise to number one.
So to help pass the time while watching Stuart Broad for the last time at the Oval, I consulted ‘The Wizz’, my old friend Andrew Samson, who has more knowledge about this great game than I can ever hope to acquire and with whom I have been fortunate enough to have shared many a commentary box. I asked him to help me select a possible squad. You may be surprised by who and what is available. Remember, nobody with an SA20 contract is available.
The attack might be led by Duanne Olivier who has 59 wickets from 15 Tests at an average of 21.9. Lutho Sipamla has 11 wickets from three Tests at 22.3 and Glenton Stuurman played his solitary Test in New Zealand just 18 months ago, albeit for a match return of 1-124.
Beyers Swanepoel may the most exciting, young all-rounder in the country with 100 wickets at 17.8 and a batting average of 29.5 with a highest score of 188* from 24 first-class matches. Left-armer seamer Kwena Maphaka has played just a single first-class game (for SA ‘A’ in Sri Lanka last month) but he, too, is immensely exciting. Sink or swim. If you’re good enough, you’re old enough.
Left arm spinner, Sean Whitehead, hit the headlines when he took 10-36 in an innings for SWD last season, the 13th best figures ever, but with 74 wickets at 23.3 and a batting average of 37.7 with two hundreds, he is no one-hit wonder. Or perhaps Thomas Kaber’s left-arm wrist spin?


Possible Squad: Dean Elgar (captain), Tony de Zorzi, Keegan Petersen, Stiaan van Zyl, Zubayr Hamza, Khaya Zondo, Raynard van Tonder, Sinethemba Qeshile (wk), Rivaldo Moonsamy (wk), Lutho Sipamla, Glenton Stuurman, Duanne Olivier, Beyers Swanepoel, Sean Whitehead, Kwena Maphaka,
Other possibilities:
Rudi Second, Ziyaad Abrahams, Eldred Hawken, Thomas Kaber, Joshua Richards, Dominic Hendricks, Jason Smith, Tsepo Ndwandwa.
Could they be tempted?
Dane Paterson, Kyle Abbott, Leus du Plooy, David Bedingham, Hashim Amla…

How good would SA 'E' team be?

No 'Dog & Duck XI' for Proteas

mannersoncricket.substack.com

Discuss.

 

[Dendarii]

On paper, that squad doesn't look too bad. A lot of untested players, but there's potential there if they're able to make the step up from domestic cricket.

 

[Silver Silva]

On paper, that squad doesn't look too bad. A lot of untested players, but there's potential there if they're able to make the step up from domestic cricket.

If some of those guys perform they deserve first preference over those who return from the SA T20 league .

 

[Socerer 01]

Bavuma will be there for sure

 

[Marius]

Bavuma will be there for sure

I don't know, Bavuma might get an SA20 gig.

 

[Silver Silva]

1.Tony De Zorzi
2.Dean Elgar
3.Keegan Petersen
4.David Bedingham
5.Zubayr Hamza
6.Sinethemba Qeshile (WK)
7.Jason Smith
8.Beyers Swanepoel
9.Sean Whitehead
10.Glenton Stuurman
11.Lutho Sipamla