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How will this series measure up to Ashes 2005?

flibbertyjibber

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That English side does get overrated here. It was an ATG series but England weren't demolishing sides like West Indies of 80s did.
But we did win in West Indies and South Africa that we hadn't done for a couple of generations so it was a very good side. Not as good as the Strauss side a few years later but easily our 2nd best in my lifetime.
 
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wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
But we did win in West Indies and South Africa that we hadn't done for a couple of generations so it was a very good side. Not as good as the Strauss side a few years later but easily our 2nd vest in my lifetime.
I was thinking about that too, but you beat me to it. They whitewashed NZ too, and that doesn't happen very often. It's still the only England side that's won in the Caribbean since 1968. I suppose some might argue that the batting line-up that won in the WI was very different to what we saw in 2005, with only 2 of the top 5 still there. But that WI tour was, I think, the first time we saw the pace attack that brought the Ashes back home in 2005.

Taking a longer-term perspective, my life-time goes back a bit before yours, but I don't think there's been a England better side since I've been around either. Certainly not since I've actually been watching the game. Maybe the 1968 vintage, which I was too young to follow at all, had the best top 7, and Snow was as good as anyone since, but I'm not sure about the rest of the attack.
 

halba

International 12th Man
Eng of 05 has a great bowling attack led by the great Flintoff. Aus of 05 with Warne and McGrath if he didn't trod on ball, Brett Lee fit is a great bowling attack. The batting line-up with guys like Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Gilchrist, is much better than current lineup.

Overall. Aus 05 full strength Xi >>> current xi by country miles. The current Aus team is mediocre in comparison

Eng 05 xi better than current xi significantly.
 

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
You can't be ATG for just a single series.

And I think the current side would give the 2005 team a good contest. They are good at punching above their weight.
The current England side? Holy ****. If the current England side played the 05 one in those conditions, with three guys bowling 150+, Jones reversing it, Hoggard bending it, they'd be lucky to get to 100 in 10 goes through the series. Good luck Bazballing Harmison off a length, Jones bending it both ways at will, Flintoff the same. Flintoff had Gilchrist on toast. You don't reckon he'd reduce Ben Duckett to sucking his thumb (if he ever got to bat that far into the innings)?
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
England 05 would beat England 23 with a good deal of ease

The bowling attack of 05 will be too much. Pietersen, Vaughan et al will be stronger for the 23 attack. It's not even funny.

Australia 05 will hammer Australia 23 as well


Lets do a combined side of both team

England: Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Root, Pietersen, Stokes, Flintoff, Bairstow, S.Jones, Broad, Harmison (3 of the current side)
Australia: Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Smith, Clarke, Katich, Gilchrist, Warne, Cummins, Lee, McGrath (Only 2)

And having Bairstow over G.Jones is a tough one for Bairstow's batting is a factor
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
And having Bairstow over G.Jones is a tough one for Bairstow's batting is a factor
On current form, Jones gets the gig. His batting average is slightly higher and at no point did any of his drops actually cost England a Test (or 2).

As for the Aussies, you could argue Khawaja for Hayden, Head for Katich and Starc for Lee.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I liked Geraint Jones, but Bairstow is a significantly better batter than Jones ever was. They aren't even comparable imo.
 

Bijed

International Regular
On current form, Jones gets the gig. His batting average is slightly higher and at no point did any of his drops actually cost England a Test (or 2).
I know we drew, not lost, but he missed a stumping (and dropped a catch too I think) off Warne early-ish in his 90 in the 3rd test. Take either of those and we should win that match pretty comfortably
 

Chin Music

State Vice-Captain
On current form, Jones gets the gig. His batting average is slightly higher and at no point did any of his drops actually cost England a Test (or 2).

As for the Aussies, you could argue Khawaja for Hayden, Head for Katich and Starc for Lee.
I thought Jones cost us at Old Trafford in that series. I really wasn't a Jones fan at all although I certainly don't debate Bairstow has been rank this series.

I actually think picking a combined team is tough. Sure Bell from 2005 wouldn't get picked for a combined team but when you consider the likes of Vaughan and Stokes it is tricky. We know that Flintoff had an all time great series, even if as a player Stokes is comfortably the better batsman.

Strauss & Trescothick as openers is a no-brainer. I would probably pick Vaughan at 3, Pietersen 4, Root 5, Stokes 6, G Jones 7, Flintoff 8, Giles 9, S Jones 10 Broad 11.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
England 05 would beat England 23 with a good deal of ease

The bowling attack of 05 will be too much. Pietersen, Vaughan et al will be stronger for the 23 attack. It's not even funny.

Australia 05 will hammer Australia 23 as well


Lets do a combined side of both team

England: Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan, Root, Pietersen, Stokes, Flintoff, Bairstow, S.Jones, Broad, Harmison (3 of the current side)
Australia: Hayden, Langer, Ponting, Smith, Clarke, Katich, Gilchrist, Warne, Cummins, Lee, McGrath (Only 2)

And having Bairstow over G.Jones is a tough one for Bairstow's batting is a factor
Hoggard over Harmison from 2005.....and it's only been 1 test but if Wood can bowl grenades like that again at OT then he's locking in a spot from a combined team.
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
Strauss & Trescothick as openers is a no-brainer. I would probably pick Vaughan at 3, Pietersen 4, Root 5, Stokes 6, G Jones 7, Flintoff 8, Giles 9, S Jones 10 Broad 11.
You've got 2 allrounders in there but that still feels a bowler light tbh. Hoggard or Wood (subject to another great test) have to be in there.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
You've got 2 allrounders in there but that still feels a bowler light tbh. Hoggard or Wood (subject to another great test) have to be in there.
On just numbers (forgetting about where people want to play), you'd probably have Trescothick, Strauss, KP, Root, Stokes, Flintoff, Jones, Giles, Broad, Harmison/Wood, Jones
 

Adders

Cricketer Of The Year
I can't remember the stat's but Harmy was great at Lords but I reckon Hoggard had a much better series?
 

Bijed

International Regular
I can't remember the stat's but Harmy was great at Lords but I reckon Hoggard had a much better series?
Hoggard was 16 @ 29.5 vs Harmison 17 @ 32.3. But yeah, most of that was concentrated into the Lords test for Harmison and he was mostly underwhelming afterwards
 

Ali TT

International Vice-Captain
Guess it depends if you are selecting in hindsight of what has transpired in the 2 series or if you were at the outset of a hypothetical series and had to select them based upon their career "to date", fit to team. Also assuming that we're picking like for like, ie one all-rounder, one spinner etc

In which case for England, it'd be
Strauss, Tres, Vaughan*, Root, KP, Flintoff, Foakes+, Giles, SiJo, Broad, Harmison
HMs to Brook, Stokes and Wood
No spot for Anderson, who'd get the Thorpe-treatment ahead of the series.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
On current form, Jones gets the gig. His batting average is slightly higher and at no point did any of his drops actually cost England a Test (or 2).

As for the Aussies, you could argue Khawaja for Hayden, Head for Katich and Starc for Lee.
This logic is terrible, though. The costliness of drops is not down to the player who drops them so using it to determine which one you prefer makes zero sense!
 

Kirkut

International Regular
Harbhajan was
Harbhajan was never an ATG, not even ATVG.

He was a great match winner for sure, was a part of many iconic wins. I will always remember him for the beauty he bowled to Umar Akmal in 2011 WC semis who at one time started hitting sixes with ease and almost took the game away from India.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Hoggard was 16 @ 29.5 vs Harmison 17 @ 32.3. But yeah, most of that was concentrated into the Lords test for Harmison and he was mostly underwhelming afterwards
This was CW's take on Harmison's performance shortly after the series finished:
Clarke did have a tendency for falling to extraordinary deliveries, also being dismissed by Steve Harmison’s slow leg-cutter at Edgbaston, and, perhaps most unbelievable of all, at Trent Bridge being trapped leg before by a delivery from the same bowler that pitched in line and would have gone on to hit the stumps. A bit harsh on the big man? I don’t think so. After a fine performance at Lord’s, his subsequent nine wickets each cost over 50 runs. That return becomes even less impressive when you take into account the shocking decisions in his favour that did for Martyn at Old Trafford and Katich at Trent Bridge and the fact that three of the other wickets were Kasprowicz or Tait. All of which means that, despite being armed with the new ball, he picked up the grand total of four legitimate dismissals of front line batsmen in four tests. We’ve been here before. Steve Harmison has now been seriously ineffective in nine tests out of ten against South Africa and Australia, and you have to wonder how long the selectors will be patient.
 

kevinw

State Captain
I liked Geraint Jones, but Bairstow is a significantly better batter than Jones ever was. They aren't even comparable imo.
I know Jones got a fifty in the series, maybe a second, but I just remember his terrible dismissal in the small chase at Trent Bridge when he just ran down the wicket to a rampant Warne and spooned it in the air. Luckily Hoggard and Giles saw us home.
 

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