Better white ball bowler: Mitchell Starc or Glenn McGrath

[Himannv]

Thats an odd way to type McGrath needs fielders

Very well, fielders do something when McGoat is bowling - happy?

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Starc and Lee need a ball, McGrath needs a ball and fielders.

Starc and Lee need fielders to collect the ball from the boundary rope a lot more than McGrath.

 

[number11]

GM is a true ATG but in white ball cricket alone this is pretty close. Starc's extra pace and the LH angle give him some arrows for his quiver. I feel he bowls the more unplayable balls if both bring their A game. Close call.

 

[Saket1209]

In odi its far more close. Starc has also produced two mind blowing wc performances. And both have similar averages. Plus Mcgrath has another atg white ball bowler lee on his side. Starc is alone , Cummins and Hazzlewood are not great white ball bowler. And economy is McGrath is better because he played in an era where 220-230 was considered a match winning score. Nowadays 300 is a bare minimum. Same goes for the strike rate. Starc has a better strike rate because batsman are more attacking thus sometimes throws there wicket away. Thus its 45-55 in favour of mcgrath. If starc can produce a world class perfomance here in India then for me he will be better because this wc is in sc.

 

[loterry1994]

I’d go Starc but his dropped off a bit the last few years in the short forms. His not as good at the death these days

 

[Saket1209]

I’d go Starc but his dropped off a bit the last few years in the short forms. His not as good at the death these days

Yeah because these days they have made far easier for the batsman with 5 fielders outside the inner circle. so easy singles and doubles + sixes and fours in between. But yeah starc has dipped. But from 2022 he is again back to his beast form especially in odis

 

[Migara]

In Odis for me its

1. Brett Lee
2. Mitchell Starc
3. Glenn McGrath

Regardless a Stunning attack to have together, only Pakistan can level this if warne and saqlain as the spinners are considered too

Nah, Sri Lanka has a comparable one too. try playing Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Mendis and Jayasuriya as the 5th bowler who has 300+ wickets in ODIs. Unlike Australian or Pakistani attacks, these guys played together too.

McGrath for me is the best ODI fast bowler going around followed by Wasim, Pollock and Garner in no particular order. Next comes Lee, Bond, Hadlee, Vaas, Donald, Malinga and few others like Imran and Waqar. I did not rate bowlers who are still active. Bumrah most probably will join them.

Spinners wise Murali is gulf ahead of next two, Saqlain at two and Warne at three. Kumble, Qadir, Mendis, Ajmal were pretty good too.

 

[Silver Line]

Nah, Sri Lanka has a comparable one too. try playing Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Mendis and Jayasuriya as the 5th bowler who has 300+ wickets in ODIs. Unlike Australian or Pakistani attacks, these guys played together too.

McGrath for me is the best ODI fast bowler going around followed by Wasim, Pollock and Garner in no particular order. Next comes Lee, Bond, Hadlee, Vaas, Donald, Malinga and few others like Imran and Waqar. I did not rate bowlers who are still active. Bumrah most probably will join them.

Spinners wise Murali is gulf ahead of next two, Saqlain at two and Warne at three. Kumble, Qadir, Mendis, Ajmal were pretty good too.

im sorry man but thats heaps of bias youve thrown in. I do rate Murali ahead in ODIs but he isnt gulfs ahead of saqlain or warne in odis. Matter fact go check Warne’s odi record from (96-08) he is phenomenal.

Love vaas and malinga but sri lanka doesn’t have an atg fast bowler in odis that can contest W’s, Mcgrath,Starc etc. And by atg I mean someone who could contest a spot in World XI not SL XI.

i dont see the point of u mentioning jaysuriya’s wicket count. He’s got 450 ODI games on him, to go lower than a wicket a match at 37 average isnt inspiring at all as a fifth option.

mendis was great and ik he gets unnecessary slack for being figured out, but SL themselves dropping him despite his record smells fishy to me as well, considering his low match tally.

….sorry SL bowling isnt strong enough to match Australia/Pakistan. As of now, SL’s odi bowling unit is better than England and India’s.

 

[number11]

In white ball cricket, in alltime terms, Australia, Pakistan and West Indies have the best attacks. Assuming 5 bt, 1 wkt, 5 bowlers (some of whom may be ARs but we're focusing on the bowling).

Aus: (no particular order)

McGrath
Lee
Warne
Starc
Lillee

You may opt to ditch one (eg DKL) for a AR, but it's absolute fire.

Pakistan:

Imran Khan
Wasim
Waqar
Saqlain
Shoaib

I guess if you want 4 specialist bowlers only, you could drop 1 for Razzaq as an additional AR.

West Indies:

Ambrose
Holding
Marshall
Roberts
Garner

If you want more batting - who to drop? But with Viv and Lara at 3 and 4, I'd play 5 specialists. They could get 5th bowler duties from a combo of IVA Richards and Gayle.

I don't think other teams can match that firepower.

 

[Migara]

im sorry man but thats heaps of bias youve thrown in. I do rate Murali ahead in ODIs but he isnt gulfs ahead of saqlain or warne in odis. Matter fact go check Warne’s odi record from (96-08) he is phenomenal.

Love vaas and malinga but sri lanka doesn’t have an atg fast bowler in odis that can contest W’s, Mcgrath,Starc etc. And by atg I mean someone who could contest a spot in World XI not SL XI.

i dont see the point of u mentioning jaysuriya’s wicket count. He’s got 450 ODI games on him, to go lower than a wicket a match at 37 average isnt inspiring at all as a fifth option.

mendis was great and ik he gets unnecessary slack for being figured out, but SL themselves dropping him despite his record smells fishy to me as well, considering his low match tally.

….sorry SL bowling isnt strong enough to match Australia/Pakistan. As of now, SL’s odi bowling unit is better than England and India’s.

Murali was a way better bowler in ODIs than Warne for as thrice as much as duration. He is clearly a gulf ahead of Warne. May be you have an argument for Saqlain, but he had a career 40% that of Murali.

Vaas and Malinga are ATG fast bowlers in ODI cricket. That is most people don't realize. A recent analysis by cricinfo placed Vaas in top 10 and Malinga in top 20 and Mendis in top 25. Jayasuriya is easily the best 5th bowler in ODI cricket. No one comes even close to him as the 5th bowler.

SL bowling may not be as strong in ATG context. But it was one of the greatest ever ODI attacks assembled, because all these bowlers played in overlapping periods, not decades apart as in other teams.

 

[Silver Line]

Murali was a way better bowler in ODIs than Warne for as thrice as much as duration. He is clearly a gulf ahead of Warne. May be you have an argument for Saqlain, but he had a career 40% that of Murali.

Vaas and Malinga are ATG fast bowlers in ODI cricket. That is most people don't realize. A recent analysis by cricinfo placed Vaas in top 10 and Malinga in top 20 and Mendis in top 25. Jayasuriya is easily the best 5th bowler in ODI cricket. No one comes even close to him as the 5th bowler.

SL bowling may not be as strong in ATG context. But it was one of the greatest ever ODI attacks assembled, because all these bowlers played in overlapping periods, not decades apart as in other teams.

there is no ‘thrice’ warne’s sample taken is of him bowling for 12 years. Conducting the best 12 years (also hapenned to be 96-08) of Muralitharan also showed the exact same statistics. Murali gets ahead for having 2-3 more additional years of great bowling, otherwise they are level.

having watched both Malinga and Vaas they are best top 15-20. Regardless-not sufficient when Australia and Pakistan has multiple bowlers contesting for no.1 rather than some top 20 list.

You talk about how complete SL’s attack would be in an atg because they overlapped. The same applies to Pak and Aus and other countries, imagine how strong they would become further.

and Aus and Pak’s fifth and fourth bowler are the ones who are their nations leading bowlers in their eras. Think how crazy that is

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Nah, Sri Lanka has a comparable one too. try playing Vaas, Malinga, Murali, Mendis and Jayasuriya as the 5th bowler who has 300+ wickets in ODIs. Unlike Australian or Pakistani attacks, these guys played together too.

I'd prefer Kulasekera over Mendis in an ATG SL side because Mendis got worked out, Kulasekera would strengthen a weak SL tail, and it is better having another seamer so more of Malinga's overs can be saved for the death.

 

[number11]

SA 6-man attack

Donald
Pollock
Morkel
Klusener
Tahir
Kallis

The last 4 names are not comparable to the ATG bowlers the others are fielding. Donald and Pollock - yes. Klusner and Kallis are solid options but a level or 2 below the great quicks mentioned. Ditto Tahir wrt Warne, Saqlian, Murali etc.

As ARs or in terms of absolute value to a team, they definitely add a lot, but strictly in terms of bowling, it is a gulf.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

The last 4 names are not comparable to the ATG bowlers the others are fielding. Donald and Pollock - yes. Klusner and Kallis are solid options but a level or 2 below the great quicks mentioned. Ditto Tahir wrt Warne, Saqlian, Murali etc.

As ARs or in terms of absolute value to a team, they definitely add a lot, but strictly in terms of bowling, it is a gulf.

Imran and Shoaib were excellent test bowlers (IK one of the top 10 of all time), but neither were great ODI bowlers. I'd put Morkel and Steyn above them. There are also many NZ ODI seamers who were better than Shoaib.

 

[Migara]

there is no ‘thrice’ warne’s sample taken is of him bowling for 12 years. Conducting the best 12 years (also hapenned to be 96-08) of Muralitharan also showed the exact same statistics. Murali gets ahead for having 2-3 more additional years of great bowling, otherwise they are level.

Completely erroneous. Warne played from 93-05, 194 matches. Murali played 1993, 2011, 350 matches, almost double as Warne. He has much better average and SR, and has an insane peak as long as Warne's career. I doubt you may be mixing up test and ODI stats.

having watched both Malinga and Vaas they are best top 15-20. Regardless-not sufficient when Australia and Pakistan has multiple bowlers contesting for no.1 rather than some top 20 list.

You are entitled to your opinion. However statistical analysis says otherwise. I will take the latter due to objectivity.

You talk about how complete SL’s attack would be in an atg because they overlapped. The same applies to Pak and Aus and other countries, imagine how strong they would become further.

Infact that did not happen. So the fact that Sri Lanka fielded one of greatest ever ODI bowling attacks don't change.

and Aus and Pak’s fifth and fourth bowler are the ones who are their nations leading bowlers in their eras. Think how crazy that is

Like Afridi, Symonds or Shane Watson? Oh, Ok. I will concede the point.

Who is the greatest ODI bowler of all time?

A comprehensive analysis that takes into account era, opposition strength, quality of wickets, big-tournament performances, and longevity

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Migara]

I'd prefer Kulasekera over Mendis in an ATG SL side because Mendis got worked out, Kulasekera would strengthen a weak SL tail, and it is better having another seamer so more of Malinga's overs can be saved for the death.

We had Mathews to do that. Averaged 33 with ball is pretty healthy for a sixth bowler.

 

[Socerer 01]

The last 4 names are not comparable to the ATG bowlers the others are fielding. Donald and Pollock - yes. Klusner and Kallis are solid options but a level or 2 below the great quicks mentioned. Ditto Tahir wrt Warne, Saqlian, Murali etc.

As ARs or in terms of absolute value to a team, they definitely add a lot, but strictly in terms of bowling, it is a gulf.

Tahir is the best spinner in the last decade which has been the most batting friendly due to pitches, two new balls and the changed fielding restrictions. he is definitely up there in the same class as the ones you talked about and is also underrated in general

 

[Silver Line]

Completely erroneous. Warne played from 93-05, 194 matches. Murali played 1993, 2011, 350 matches, almost double as Warne. He has much better average and SR, and has an insane peak as long as Warne's career. I doubt you may be mixing up test and ODI stats.

You are entitled to your opinion. However statistical analysis says otherwise. I will take the latter due to objectivity.

Infact that did not happen. So the fact that Sri Lanka fielded one of greatest ever ODI bowling attacks don't change.

Like Afridi, Symonds or Shane Watson? Oh, Ok. I will concede the point.

View attachment 36401

Who is the greatest ODI bowler of all time?

A comprehensive analysis that takes into account era, opposition strength, quality of wickets, big-tournament performances, and longevity

www.espncricinfo.com

no i’m not mixing up test and odis. I look at years played, not matches played. Otherwise every modern cricketer would be greater than their past counterpart.

warne averaged 21 with the ball in odis (96-08)
a 12 year sample is a huge sample and most bowlers dont even last that long in odis.



and Murali and Warne’s years played are also near identical. Seeing Warne ruling in BBL despite his retirement showed, just like Murali his c was still intact.

im not here to debate who’s better but Murali, Warne and Saqlain cancel eachother out in ODIs man to man.

that chart by cricinfo you provided, evaluates Face Value averages. If you were a bit considerate and smart, you would know face value averages cannot be taken seriously without the appropriate filteration to highlight the bowlers career properly. Think Voges.

Or think Imran, where after the age of 36 his bowling stats dipped. Had he stopped playing by 36 which is where most bowlers leave, he would have retired at an ODI bowling average of 23. Something that cricinfo chart doesnt bother considering as like I said, takes face value stats.

as for fifth option. Lol.

pakistan is going in ODIs with an attack of Imran, Shoaib, Waqar, Saqlain, Wasim. Do you really think jayasuriya and Mathews etc is the answer to that?

australia is going in with Warne, McGrath, Lee, Starc. That lineup alone is enough to not even warrant a ‘but my fifth option is better’ when your other options barring murali will not be equals man to man.

evaluating all this, Pakistan has the best ODI bowling attack, Australia at a second now that im looking at the fifth bowlers of each side.

In these forums, mate its best to be a cricket fan than a national fan.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

View attachment 36401

Who is the greatest ODI bowler of all time?

A comprehensive analysis that takes into account era, opposition strength, quality of wickets, big-tournament performances, and longevity

www.espncricinfo.com

No way Vaas and Lee are better than Pollock.

 

[number11]

Imran and Shoaib were excellent test bowlers (IK one of the top 10 of all time), but neither were great ODI bowlers. I'd put Morkel and Steyn above them. There are also many NZ ODI seamers who were better than Shoaib.

Shoaib was a monster white ball bowler. Seriously.