South Africa team selection

[Dendarii]

I think you mean TrisTON

Hopefully you'll be able to roll out that pun many times in the future.

 

[Krypto]

Im not sure if this is the right place but i believe South Africa is undisputed in one category and its unwanted however I believe we can produce the greatest 11 that never played for their country of Birth , has their been such a discussion ? I am unable to find it . If you look at current cricketers if they were available for SA it would be one hell of a list .

 

[Socerer 01]

Im not sure if this is the right place but i believe South Africa is undisputed in one category and its unwanted however I believe we can produce the greatest 11 that never played for their country of Birth , has their been such a discussion ? I am unable to find it . If you look at current cricketers if they were available for SA it would be one hell of a list .

such a weird thing to be proud of

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Im not sure if this is the right place but i believe South Africa is undisputed in one category and its unwanted however I believe we can produce the greatest 11 that never played for their country of Birth , has their been such a discussion ? I am unable to find it . If you look at current cricketers if they were available for SA it would be one hell of a list .

Definitely..The only thing that holds us back is racial politics , a bad economy and a safety first mindset ..
Without those three things we would be unstoppable..

 

[Krypto]

such a weird thing to be proud of

I am not proud its a title we have however definitely do not want .

 

[Dendarii]

Im not sure if this is the right place but i believe South Africa is undisputed in one category and its unwanted however I believe we can produce the greatest 11 that never played for their country of Birth

Maybe, although in these sorts of discussions there needs to be a distinction between where a player was born and where they grew up/went to school. Otherwise you get things like Bob Woolmer and Robin Jackman counting for India.

If you look at current cricketers if they were available for SA it would be one hell of a list .

I don't think it's as strong as it would a been when Kolpak was still a thing. But even then it was probably more likely to have decent batting but a little short on the bowling.

 

[Krypto]

Maybe, although in these sorts of discussions there needs to be a distinction between where a player was born and where they grew up/went to school. Otherwise you get things like Bob Woolmer and Robin Jackman counting for India.


I don't think it's as strong as it would a been when Kolpak was still a thing. But even then it was probably more likely to have decent batting but a little short on the bowling.

Yea i think the distinction is where it gets murky as we cannot state Marnus Labaschagne is South African however we can for Devon Conway ? I think its difficult as why did they leave ? If its like conway not finding his way in South Africa is there then more emphasis on him being South African ?

Also on the bowlers i think there is world class bowlers and all rounders floating about , Tom Curren , Curtis Campher , Ruben Trumpelmann , James Fuller and there is many others who pop up when i look at world stats but cannot think of them now . Its just incredible the amount of world cricketers that has SA roots somehow .

 

[Krypto]

Definitely..The only thing that holds us back is racial politics , a bad economy and a safety first mindset ..
Without those three things we would be unstoppable..

I agree , i always wonder what would happen if we have the same mentality as Rugby that we can select players that has South African heritage and eligibility and has a career in other countries , however highly doubt that will ever happen in Cricket .

 

[Socerer 01]

Yea i think the distinction is where it gets murky as we cannot state Marnus Labaschagne is South African however we can for Devon Conway ? I think its difficult as why did they leave ? If its like conway not finding his way in South Africa is there then more emphasis on him being South African ?

Also on the bowlers i think there is world class bowlers and all rounders floating about , Tom Curren , Curtis Campher , Ruben Trumpelmann , James Fuller and there is many others who pop up when i look at world stats but cannot think of them now . Its just incredible the amount of world cricketers that has SA roots somehow .

im very sure England will gladly give you world class all rounder Tom Curran back if you ask them nicely

 

[Krypto]

im very sure England will gladly give you world class all rounder Tom Curran back if you ask them nicely

A lot of sarcasm there however currently wouldn't mind him as a option for T20.

Edit : Do you think we might get his brother as a option as well while we at it ? All jokes .... of a serious matter but not to serious about it .

 

[Socerer 01]

A lot of sarcasm there however currently wouldn't mind him as a option for T20.

Edit : Do you think we might get his brother as a option as well while we at it ? All jokes .... of a serious matter but not to serious about it .

because none of those players you listed are good enough for your team and if you think they are then the standards of SA team must have badly dropped

 

[Krypto]

because none of those players you listed are good enough for your team and if you think they are then the standards of SA team must have badly dropped

I didn't say they are at the SA first team standards just stated they are world class meaning they are good enough at top level . Having them as options would just increase competitiveness and depth , we are lacking in depth . So if you look at our second and third options its where your statement becomes a little to close to home .

 

[Socerer 01]

I didn't say they are at the SA first team standards just stated they are world class meaning they are good enough at top level . Having them as options would just increase competitiveness and depth , we are lacking in depth . So if you look at our second and third options its where your statement becomes a little to close to home .

you and i have very different standards for what qualifies for world class

 

[Dendarii]

Also on the bowlers i think there is world class bowlers and all rounders floating about , Tom Curren , Curtis Campher , Ruben Trumpelmann , James Fuller and there is many others who pop up when i look at world stats but cannot think of them now .

I think Fuller might only count as South African-born, and Curran too (although he did eventually go to Hilton). And are Campher or Trumpelmann better options than anyone we have at the moment?

I agree , i always wonder what would happen if we have the same mentality as Rugby that we can select players that has South African heritage and eligibility and has a career in other countries , however highly doubt that will ever happen in Cricket .

Rugby is a bit different. Most of the overseas-based players had already played for the Boks before moving. Cheslin Kolbe, Jasper Wiese, and Jean Kleyn are the only ones I can think of right now who hadn't, and they had already made something of a name for themselves before leaving and went straight to top teams over there.

The cricket players on the other hand have tended to be players who had been established here and have worked their way up through the ranks. That means by the time they've entered any sort of discussion around international cricket they'll have also become eligible through residence for the country they're living in (if they didn't already have a passport) and will have been approached by them, so there would have been very little chance of them playing for South Africa.

 

[Krypto]

you and i have very different standards for what qualifies for world class

Yea i guess , if a player can play international cricket and do well for me that is what quantifies a world class player , i believe your refering it to the best of the best in world class cricket . That would make for a interesting conversation however a short one as there would currently be maybe 15 to 20 or so of those players with all nations considered and they would be in like a current world 11 discussion or something like that .

 

[Krypto]

I think Fuller might only count as South African-born, and Curran too (although he did eventually go to Hilton). And are Campher or Trumpelmann better options than anyone we have at the moment?



Rugby is a bit different. Most of the overseas-based players had already played for the Boks before moving. Cheslin Kolbe, Jasper Wiese, and Jean Kleyn are the only ones I can think of right now who hadn't, and they had already made something of a name for themselves before leaving and went straight to top teams over there.

The cricket players on the other hand have tended to be players who had been established here and have worked their way up through the ranks. That means by the time they've entered any sort of discussion around international cricket they'll have also become eligible through residence for the country they're living in (if they didn't already have a passport) and will have been approached by them, so there would have been very little chance of them playing for South Africa.

Very good points , i think the policy in Rugby is a little different and allows for those type of selections regardless . I speak under correction . This wouldve been more relevant then with Kolpak .

Would be a interesting discussion point if our policies did allow international selection in some way or another , however we cant even select some of our best when this gets murky . Ab and Faf is part and partial of that conversation .

 

[Socerer 01]

Very good points , i think the policy in Rugby is a little different and allows for those type of selections regardless . I speak under correction . This wouldve been more relevant then with Kolpak .

Would be a interesting discussion point if our policies did allow international selection in some way or another , however we cant even select some of our best when this gets murky . Ab and Faf is part and partial of that conversation .

do you mean the Ab who last played cricket 2 years ago? why is he part of any conversation?

and yeah a world class player is someone who walks into any international team at that point in time, i would call someone capable of playing international cricket an international level player

 

[Dendarii]

Very good points , i think the policy in Rugby is a little different and allows for those type of selections regardless . I speak under correction . This wouldve been more relevant then with Kolpak .

We couldn't pick Kolpak players. A requirement for them to go Kolpak was to not be available for international selection.

Would be a interesting discussion point if our policies did allow international selection in some way or another , however we cant even select some of our best when this gets murky . Ab and Faf is part and partial of that conversation .

That wasn't selection policies but rather an ability to figure out a way of contracting players other than the existing central contract model.

 

[Krypto]

do you mean the Ab who last played cricket 2 years ago? why is he part of any conversation?

and yeah a world class player is someone who walks into any international team at that point in time, i would call someone capable of playing international cricket an international level player

Referring to the previous world cup nonsense around AB , similar things now happening with Faf .

That is an interesting way of looking at it , as some teams/countries have players not in their starting 11 that will easily get into other teams first 11 .

 

[Krypto]

We couldn't pick Kolpak players. A requirement for them to go Kolpak was to not be available for international selection.


That wasn't selection policies but rather an ability to figure out a way of contracting players other than the existing central contract model.

Yea i get that was more referring to our international players going overseas , not much of that except the current t20 world leagues however that seems to be more sorted these days .

How is contracts and pre selection contracts not part of selection policies also there was and is a lot of he is in then not then available then not etc which doesn't install confidence when getting to selecting our best possible ?