How do Indian fans compare the Dhoni and post-Dhoni era?

[subshakerz]

Dhoni scarred me forever with 8-0. Under Kohli we had a gun series each in England and Australia, but the wounds of 8-0 have not healed completely.

Again, it's not the 8-0 scorecard but the way we lost. Even losing some iconic games to Pakistan did not feel that bad.

Yes, Dhoni was an ATG LOI captain with his field sets that dried up runs.

I critique Kohli but overall he is a good test captain and better than Dhoni. I can assure you if Kohli was captain with the same attack, he would have sneaked a victory here or there and would have ended up 6-2 or 7-1 rather than 8-0. Simply better handling of bowlers if nothing else.

 

[anil1405]

A combination of Dhoni's LOI captaincy and Kohli's test captaincy would've given us an era to cherish for a long time.

 

[Kirkut]

A combination of Dhoni's LOI captaincy and Kohli's test captaincy would've given us an era to cherish for a long time.

In the real world you probably cannot have the cake and eat it

 

[Xix2565]

It's literally blaming player performaces on the captain, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to accept this judgement of captaincy as a rational cricket fan based on very loose correlations.

 

[subshakerz]

It's literally blaming player performaces on the captain, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to accept this judgement of captaincy as a rational cricket fan based on very loose correlations.

Actually, bowlers performances can be partly blamed on captains as its their job to rotate them properly, set the right fields and cajole them when needed.

And then their are decisions on whether to chase a score or when to declare that we are also blaming Dhoni for.

 

[Xix2565]

Actually, bowlers performances can be partly blamed on captains as its their job to rotate them properly, set the right fields and cajole them when needed.

And then their are decisions on whether to chase a score or when to declare that we are also blaming Dhoni for.

I mean that's still determined by how successful the bowler is, which is still down to luck as much as anything. Is it a good rotation if the bowler is just average? Again, attributing unrelated events or decisions to which you don't know the reasonings behind to the captain as a sign of their "quality" is idiotic to be very kind with words.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's literally blaming player performaces on the captain, I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to accept this judgement of captaincy as a rational cricket fan based on very loose correlations.

Did you watch the Lord's test match when ishant ran through England's top order, had them at 60-5 and then Dhoni didn't bowl him for 10 overs after lunch? And then when he finally brought him back, he took a wicket in his second over but it was too late? I remember.

This isn't "blaming player performaces on a captain", the majority of the incidents cited here had the bowlers doing well but Dhoni making poor decisions and letting them down.

 

[Xix2565]

Did you watch the Lord's test match when ishant ran through England's top order, had them at 60-5 and then Dhoni didn't bowl him for 10 overs after lunch? And then when he finally brought him back, he took a wicket in his second over but it was too late? I remember.

This isn't "blaming player performaces on a captain", the majority of the incidents cited here had the bowlers doing well but Dhoni making poor decisions and letting them down.

Again, it's a poor decision because of the result, which is the issue I have with this sort of judgement. I think captaincy is just too difficult to evaluate and so I'm not really sure why people want to compare these things like there's an objective answer that can be reached.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Again, it's a poor decision because of the result, which is the issue I have with this sort of judgement. I think captaincy is just too difficult to evaluate and so I'm not really sure why people want to compare these things like there's an objective answer that can be reached.

It was a poor decision because of what he did, the result was irrelevant and I didn't even mention it. India most likely lose that game anyway.

 

[Xix2565]

It was a poor decision because of what he did, the result was irrelevant and I didn't even mention it. India most likely lose that game anyway.

I wasn't referring to the result of the game though then, just what happened after he made the decision. Still not making a good case for evaluating captaincy through things like this.

 

[CodeOfWisden]

It was hard to watch tests in Dhoni Era.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Dhoni did get India to No.1 in Test Cricket , he did win the ODI WC , T20 WC and Champions Trophy ..
I mean in terms of reaching objectives based with what he had to work with, I would say he did a fantastic job ..This era you have so many players complaining about burnout ..This man juggled captaincy in 3 formats for a solid 5-6 year stretch ..plus majority of his fast bowlers were (respectfully) bang average , and he had to deal with a period of transition where legends like Kumble , Ganguly were being phased out and guys like Yuvraj Singh , Suresh Raina , Irfan Pathan did not hit the heights expected of them in test cricket.. He left Indian team in a better place than he found it .

 

[subshakerz]

Dhoni did get India to No.1 in Test Cricket , he did win the ODI WC , T20 WC and Champions Trophy ..
I mean in terms of reaching objectives based with what he had to work with, I would say he did a fantastic job ..This era you have so many players complaining about burnout ..This man juggled captaincy in 3 formats for a solid 5-6 year stretch ..plus majority of his fast bowlers were (respectfully) bang average , and he had to deal with a period of transition where legends like Kumble , Ganguly were being phased out and guys like Yuvraj Singh , Suresh Raina , Irfan Pathan did not hit the heights expected of them in test cricket.. He left Indian team in a better place than he found it .

Not in tests.

Dhoni from 2009 to 2011 took India to no.1 in the world. Then after that he lost 8-0, a series at home, and India eventually slipped back to the mid tier status they had before Ganguly started.

 

[subshakerz]

Again, it's a poor decision because of the result, which is the issue I have with this sort of judgement. I think captaincy is just too difficult to evaluate and so I'm not really sure why people want to compare these things like there's an objective answer that can be reached.

If it was a poor decision that clearly affected the result, why doesn't that matter.

Him deciding cowardly to bat forever in South Hampton against NZ in 2009 clearly led to a draw when victory was on the cards, for example.

 

[Xix2565]

If it was a poor decision that clearly affected the result, why doesn't that matter.

Him deciding cowardly to bat forever in South Hampton against NZ in 2009 clearly led to a draw when victory was on the cards, for example.

Did it? I've never said that the decision led to the result seen, just that the result seen leads to labelling decisions made prior as bad or good which isn't exactly representative of reality.

Again, this is like saying you're basically brainless because you keep parroting stupid arguments without reason. Neither of them are particularly charitable or accurate to reality.

 

[subshakerz]

Did it? I've never said that the decision led to the result seen, just that the result seen leads to labelling decisions made prior as bad or good which isn't exactly representative of reality.

Again, this is like saying you're basically brainless because you keep parroting stupid arguments without reason. Neither of them are particularly charitable or accurate to reality.

In what world is setting a score of 600 to chase for NZ justifiable?

You are basically saying that captains are capable of clear judgment errors to outsiders.

 

[honestbharani]

The frustrating thing about MSD was not that he was not a good test captain. It was the fact that he was a perfectly good to excellent test captain who just seemed to give up the moment a few things went against him. Its not even the defensive captaincy of not going for a target when we were 1-0 up away from home in SENA, its just that he seemed to drop his shoulders when everything was against him, which it often is when we play away esp. in SENA.

The Lords test is a good example. He saw Zak hobble off and he seemed to have immediately given up in his head, even though it was still salvageable to an extent. That part is what brings down the test captaincy rankings, not that he was not a good tactical captain in tests. He always was.