Official - Road to Ashes 2023

[trundler]

shady and TJB can't acknowledge how patently junk their views on him are and still wish Matthew Wade was batting five for Australia. Imbos unite.

Horseshoe theory etc

 

[Shady Slim]

hey i was one of the first here if not the first calling for him to open in india and i reckon had they trusted him with it he would've done a redhot job
can't have done worse than the puds who they picked

 

[Nintendo]

moving ball in ingerlund with the ingerlish attach is different from the moving ball from a more pace oriented attack on aussie surfaces to be fair. different skillsets are required in the circs.

He faced the English attack though. Robinson-broad-wood-leach-half fit stokes is basically the attack they'll field in the first test and that Hobart deck with the pink ball is as close to English conditions as your gonna get in AUS.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I'm calling bluff on the flat wickets narrative. Lords maybe, because of Engs poor record against us there they'll view a bore-draw result as a win, but every other wicket bar the Oval will be a green top because non of our bats can play a swinging ball bar Marnus and Smith. Flat wickets just bring Warner, Khawaja and Head into the game who would be non-entities otherwise. England aren't stupid (I don't think?)

Stupider like a fox!

 

[Ashes81]

I'm calling bluff on the flat wickets narrative. Lords maybe, because of Engs poor record against us there they'll view a bore-draw result as a win, but every other wicket bar the Oval will be a green top because non of our bats can play a swinging ball bar Marnus and Smith. Flat wickets just bring Warner, Khawaja and Head into the game who would be non-entities otherwise. England aren't stupid (I don't think?)

You're buying into the myth that we produce a load of seamer friendly pitches over here - we don't.

Most of our pitches are pretty batsmen friendly, look at the test scores in the last decade or so, apart from when we had early May tests up in Durham.

There will always be the odd one produced, such as Trent Bridge. Or due to the weather in the build up and during the match, the ball will do alot.

The drainage at our grounds is superb, and this keeps the squares pretty dry.

The ECB want pitches that last the distance as this guarantees more revenue through the gate and Sky TV don't want tests ending on day 3.

The pitches will be fine this summer, particularly as the weather over here at the moment has been very dry and looks like being so for the next few weeks.

 

[Socerer 01]

You're buying into the myth that we produce a load of seamer friendly pitches over here - we don't.

Most of our pitches are pretty batsmen friendly, look at the test scores in the last decade or so, apart from when we had early May tests up in Durham.

There will always be the odd one produced, such as Trent Bridge. Or due to the weather in the build up and during the match, the ball will do alot.

is that why England is ranked 8th for runs per wicket in the same last decade?

unless those early may Durham tests are massively skewing the real data across 67 matches

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Gutting for Leach to be ruled out with injury. He must have missed half the matches he could have played with illness or injury. Poor bloke doesn't get much luck.

 

[social]

Haze omission not a surprise & must be ? over his chances of playing at all

 

[Starfighter]

You're buying into the myth that we produce a load of seamer friendly pitches over here - we don't.

Most of our pitches are pretty batsmen friendly, look at the test scores in the last decade or so, apart from when we had early May tests up in Durham.

Excluding Durham, the average for pace bowlers over the past decade in England is bettered only by tests hosted in SA, Ireland and WI.

In batting averages, tests hosted in England excluding Durham are eighth out of twelve over the past decade, with the three above plus India being lower.

So not what you say.

 

[Prince EWS]

I still don't think it's really the pitches - not usually at least. Part of it is the overhead conditions, but I actually think most of it is the ball they use. There's usually plenty of movement in England but it's rare to rock up and think 'oooh that's a green one'.

 

[Shady Slim]

I still don't think it's really the pitches - not usually at least. Part of it is the overhead conditions, but I actually think most of it is the ball they use. There's usually plenty of movement in England but it's rare to rock up and think 'oooh that's a green one'.

and too very skilful bowlers who know how to exploit the ball and especially the overhead conditions

 

[GIMH]

I still don't think it's really the pitches - not usually at least. Part of it is the overhead conditions, but I actually think most of it is the ball they use. There's usually plenty of movement in England but it's rare to rock up and think 'oooh that's a green one'.

Yeah. The pitches add a bit of balance here if anything.

 

[Ashes81]

Excluding Durham, the average for pace bowlers over the past decade in England is bettered only by tests hosted in SA, Ireland and WI.

In batting averages, tests hosted in England excluding Durham are eighth out of twelve over the past decade, with the three above plus India being lower.

So not what you say.

I don't think it's as simple as that.

As others have stated, its often the overhead conditions rather than the pitches that have troubled the batsmen.

On top of that we have exceptional bowlers who can exploit to the maximum, any help that there is.

The Dukes ball also plays its part, its more bowler friendly than the Kookaburra.

Finally, our batting line up has been pretty mediocre for a good while now. We don't score enough runs, particularly up top and that is for the most part down to a lack of top quality players rather than the pitches being poor.

 

[Xix2565]

So apparently seam movement is a myth I guess. Ridiculous to claim that pitches don't matter in England or shouldn't be highlighted as much as they are at the moment.

 

[andruid]

So apparently seam movement is a myth I guess. Ridiculous to claim that pitches don't matter in England or shouldn't be highlighted as much as they are at the moment.

I think what is being said is that swing has more say than seam in the UK

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[Ashes81]

So apparently seam movement is a myth I guess. Ridiculous to claim that pitches don't matter in England or shouldn't be highlighted as much as they are at the moment.

Nobody has said that pitches don't matter in England.

What has been said is that the pitch is not the only factor in comparing how many runs etc have been scored in different countries.

 

[Starfighter]

I think what is being said is that swing has more say than seam in the UK

No, the claim is literally that the pitches do not help seam movement, but that the weather does, despite there being no plausible mechanism.

 

[Burgey]

I think what is being said is that swing has more say than seam in the UK

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Not so sure that was the case in the 2019 series tbh. Most of the wicket takers were seam bowlers or out and out quicks rather than prodigious swingers of the ball

 

[slowfinger]

Lords - usually a flat deck
Oval - flat as a pancake
Old Trafford - great batting deck
Headingly - moves a bit still a great batting deck
Trent Bridge - moves a bit
Edgbaston - notoriously good batting deck

and you can argue about the non test Decks elsewhere

 

[Xix2565]

Nobody has said that pitches don't matter in England.

What has been said is that the pitch is not the only factor in comparing how many runs etc have been scored in different countries.

No, that's not what this is about. If you want to focus on overheads affecting ball movement (something that is less proven than pitches affecting ball movement) then how do you explain the increase in seam movement? Seam bowling is when the ball literally changes direction after hitting the pitch, where are the overheads involved?

I think what is being said is that swing has more say than seam in the UK

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Would be nice to have more than wishful thinking for this to be frank. Considering seam bowling is far more potent than swing in taking wickets.