Official - Road to Ashes 2023

[Molehill]

No, because the larger you make the if, the more you're highlighting the desperation of your point when the top order is Crawley, Duckett and Pope.

Reality is starting to set in now for some England supporters as the weather over there grows what passes for warmer in the Dreary Isles. They've had to actually have a look at the squads now and are realizing the England outfit largely doesn't belong on the same park as the Australian side. Root (despite having questions to answer) and Stokes (despite being a recidivist thug who should be watching from a 6x8 foot cell in Pentonville Road Gaol) are very good players. Robinson has the makings of one, while Broad and Anderson are good in their own conditions but won't half last the series - one of them is already in doubt. The rest are hack sloggers and pretenders. They have no place in test cricket.

Player for player, Aus simply has the better batsmen and better bowlers by a large margin. As I've been saying for months, the series is done as a contest. It's over. Stick a fork in it.

Better to be aware of your failings than in total denial. If Labuschagne, Smith and Cummins have poor series then it could be utter carnage.

 

[Burgey]

Yep, if arguably the two best batsmen and the best bowler in the world all throw up all over themselves it could be interesting. I do think Aus will have to choke pretty hard to lose the series given the respective sides, but despite my conservative 4-0 prediction I am still quite confident we will get the chocolates.

 

[Starfighter]

Clearly something was up then as Woakes should always be bowling the most out of everyone, anywhere.

Jest aside, it was very clear that Root didn't rate him at all in that series.

 

[Molehill]

Yep, if arguably the two best batsmen and the best bowler in the world all throw up all over themselves it could be interesting. I do think Aus will have to choke pretty hard to lose the series given the respective sides, but despite my conservative 4-0 prediction I am still quite confident we will get the chocolates.

Aus will have to choke pretty hard to lose against a side that has won 10 of their last 12 (should've been 11) and not having lost a home Ashes series for over 20 years? If you can't beat us at our worst, good luck against our......well not best but deffo better than last time.

 

[the big bambino]

Which is funny because Woakes was decent against Smith.

Root overbowls his better bowlers. He did it to Anderson too. Perhaps he was clueless in how to handle Archer who was his first express bowler and he was keen to use him. I remember he was criticised for his captaincy of Archer who subsequently fell away after the ashes. I think some kiwis on here mocked him for lacking ticker when, on reflection, he was probably in a fair bit of pain. Over all his physical weaknesses were probably exposed earlier than expected but with that action stressing his elbow it seems like it was always going to happen no matter what. Ian Bishop suggests he should forget about red ball for a couple of seasons and reassess from there.

 

[Burgey]

Aus will have to choke pretty hard to lose against a side that has won 10 of their last 12 (should've been 11) and not having lost a home Ashes series for over 20 years? If you can't beat us at our worst, good luck against our......well not best but deffo better than last time.

You’ve been playing club standard sides who’ve been at half strength Ffs. SA can’t bat yet took a test off you, Pakistan’s attack was woeful given their injuries and NZ’s barely any better. You’re about to come up against a real attack that’s fresh, fast and world class. You’ll be done like a dinner.

 

[Molehill]

You’ve been playing club standard sides who’ve been at half strength Ffs. SA can’t bat yet took a test off you, Pakistan’s attack was woeful given their injuries and NZ’s barely any better. You’re about to come up against a real attack that’s fresh, fast and world class. You’ll be done like a dinner.

Conveniently ignores the hiding handed out to Shami, Bumrah and Siraj. The one thing we know about this Aussie attack is that it falls apart when batsmen have a go at it (Stokes, Pant).....

 

[ashley bach]

Less than a month to go now before we find out if it's Burgey or Molehill who gets egg splattered all over their face.

 

[Burgey]

Conveniently ignores the hiding handed out to Shami, Bumrah and Siraj. The one thing we know about this Aussie attack is that it falls apart when batsmen have a go at it (Stokes, Pant).....

It was a one off test ffs against India. Fmd SA took a test of England and they’re barely a FC standard batting unit. But what they do have is a competitive pace attack similar to Aus, and they routiento rolled England.
Im just trying to help you prepare mate. It’s done. Get ready. It’ll hurt at first but you’re English, so acceptance of sporting humiliation should come readily enough.

 

[Molehill]

It was a one off test ffs against India. Fmd SA took a test of England and they’re barely a FC standard batting unit. But what they do have is a competitive pace attack similar to Aus, and they routiento rolled England.
Im just trying to help you prepare mate. It’s done. Get ready. It’ll hurt at first but you’re English, so acceptance of sporting humiliation should come readily enough.

True, If the worse does come to the worse, I'll get over it very quickly. Unlike those still squealing about Murray Mints 18 years on....

 

[mackembhoy]

He did bowl more overs for England in his first year than anyone else - but that's slightly misleading as the other first choice Test bowlers don't play white ball internationals, so there weren't any other equivalent England bowlers to compare him to.

I think it's fair enough to say Root overbowled him - I remember there were a couple of long spells in the 2019 English summer in particular which felt wrong at the time let alone in hindsight. But I still think it's too simplistic to say England management outright caused his injury. His first elbow injury first came one Test into a tour and his subsequent back and elbow injuries seem to have occurred despite his workload being managed quite carefully. Like TJB says above, I think his action and the pace he bowls means he was always in danger of picking up injuries.

(I'll confess the full pace bowl off with Wood you mention is news to me. If that happened then that does sound pretty daft.)

I swear he bowled 40+ overs in an innings in New Zealand. Only one or two less than Leach iirc.

 

[Ashes81]

No, because the larger you make the if, the more you're highlighting the desperation of your point when the top order is Crawley, Duckett and Pope.

Reality is starting to set in now for some England supporters as the weather over there grows what passes for warmer in the Dreary Isles. They've had to actually have a look at the squads now and are realizing the England outfit largely doesn't belong on the same park as the Australian side. Root (despite having questions to answer) and Stokes (despite being a recidivist thug who should be watching from a 6x8 foot cell in Pentonville Road Gaol) are very good players. Robinson has the makings of one, while Broad and Anderson are good in their own conditions but won't half last the series - one of them is already in doubt. The rest are hack sloggers and pretenders. They have no place in test cricket.

Player for player, Aus simply has the better batsmen and better bowlers by a large margin. As I've been saying for months, the series is done as a contest. It's over. Stick a fork in it.

There's no doubt that man for man, the Aussies have the better players.

For most of my cricket watching life, this has been the case but we’ve won plenty of series at home in particular. Cricket and sport in general doesn't always go to form, it doesn't work like that.

If it did, we wouldn't have won the Ashes in 81, in 05 etc etc. We certainly wouldn't have beaten the Aussies down under with Gatting and Strauss at the helm.

Sport and cricket doesn't always go to form, the best team on paper doesn't always win, that's why we all love it - its unpredictable at times. Players under and over perform in ways which before the series, you couldn't imagine happening.

Home advantage is massive in test cricket and we will have it this summer. We've shown in the recent past that despite the difference on paper between the sides, we can match and beat you at home. As you know you've not won a series in England since 2001.

Why is that when for the vast majority of those series, you've had the better side on paper.

Now I'm not saying we'll beat you but for all your bravado and bluster, you know that we can trouble you this summer.

You can deny it all you like and go through the teams man for man but when the heat is on this summer, none of us know what's going to happen - that's the beauty of sport and that's why we'll all be glued to our TVs this summer.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

I swear he bowled 40+ overs in an innings in New Zealand. Only one or two less than Leach iirc.

Just looked it up - good memory. Scorecard here:

NZ vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 1st Test at Mount Maunganui, November 21 - 25, 2019

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, NZ vs ENG, England in New Zealand 2019/20 at Bay Oval, Mount Maunganui dated November 21 - 25, 2019.

www.espncricinfo.com

42(!) overs bowled by Archer, out of 201 in the innings. Leach bowled 47 and was dropped for the next game.

Yeah that's not good.

 

[Molehill]

If it did, we wouldn't have won the Ashes in 81, in 05 etc etc. We certainly wouldn't have beaten the Aussies down under with Gatting and Strauss at the helm.

Disagree about 2010/11. England had a great team, one of their all time best batting line ups, a decent crop of seamers and a quality spinner. Australia were in transition and frankly a bit of a mess. There was no shock about that result.

 

[Daemon]

Stop derailing this thread with ashes talk ffs. Take it to the Michael Neser thread.

 

[Ashes81]

Disagree about 2010/11. England had a great team, one of their all time best batting line ups, a decent crop of seamers and a quality spinner. Australia were in transition and frankly a bit of a mess. There was no shock about that result.

We did have a good team but anytime we win in Oz it's a shock for me as The Packer era apart we do it about every 15 years or so.

 

[Burgey]

There's no doubt that man for man, the Aussies have the better players.

For most of my cricket watching life, this has been the case but we’ve won plenty of series at home in particular. Cricket and sport in general doesn't always go to form, it doesn't work like that.

If it did, we wouldn't have won the Ashes in 81, in 05 etc etc. We certainly wouldn't have beaten the Aussies down under with Gatting and Strauss at the helm.

Sport and cricket doesn't always go to form, the best team on paper doesn't always win, that's why we all love it - its unpredictable at times. Players under and over perform in ways which before the series, you couldn't imagine happening.

Home advantage is massive in test cricket and we will have it this summer. We've shown in the recent past that despite the difference on paper between the sides, we can match and beat you at home. As you know you've not won a series in England since 2001.

Why is that when for the vast majority of those series, you've had the better side on paper.

Now I'm not saying we'll beat you but for all your bravado and bluster, you know that we can trouble you this summer.

You can deny it all you like and go through the teams man for man but when the heat is on this summer, none of us know what's going to happen - that's the beauty of sport and that's why we'll all be glued to our TVs this summer.

The 1986/87 Australian side was one of the worst ever put on the park. A lot of the blokes in it may have become good or great players later, but at that time they were bloody hopeless. 2010/11 Aus under performed and England that summer down here were exceptionally good.

I'm well aware of what has transpired across the various series over the years, which is why whenever an England supporter such as yourself trots out the old "when was the last time you won in England?" I remind them it was the 4th test in 2019, whereas the last time England won here was the fifth test in 2011.

I haven't been as bullish about an away Ashes series as this one in ages. There's a yawning chasm between the quality of these two sides, not just a gap. Aus brings an attack over this time which is fresh, knows the conditions and is brimming with quality that's suited to the conditions led byt he best bowler in the world. In Smith and Labushagne it has the two best batsmen on either side, Khawaja is the better of the four openers on offer, Head cancels Brook out, Green will function as a fifth bowler which England lacks, and Lyon >>> Leach.

It's done. Honestly, spare yourselves the angst and have a breather til August when the Premier League kicks off again.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Could say something similar about the 2010/11 Aus side. The batting line-up on paper looks incredible

Watson, Katich, Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Smith, Haddin

Half of them are ATGs and at the time Watson and Katich were both averaging near 50s opening the batting

But then you realise Ponting & Katich were done, Smith hadn't really started yet, and Watson and Clarke were in terrible red-ball form. Can't deny how well England bowled, they put together a better effort than any England side I've seen in my life, but Hussey & Haddin carried a line-up that, on paper, should have been putting up 450-500 every bat

the Aus bowling was genuine trash though. Deserved to lose the series on that alone

 

[Nintendo]

Could say something similar about the 2010/11 Aus side. The batting line-up on paper looks incredible

Watson, Katich, Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, Smith, Haddin

Half of them are ATGs and at the time Watson and Katich were both averaging near 50s opening the batting

But then you realise Ponting & Katich were done, Smith hadn't really started yet, and Watson and Clarke were in terrible red-ball form. Can't deny how well England bowled, they put together a better effort than any England side I've seen in my life, but Hussey & Haddin carried a line-up that, on paper, should have been putting up 450-500 every bat

the Aus bowling was genuine trash though. Deserved to lose the series on that alone

I kinda get similar vibes about this current batting lineup, ngl. Usman's never been great in england and the only time he's opened on a deck with a ton of lateral movement like he'll see in england he got 2 single digit scores and looked terrible on the back of two hundreds in the middle order, and a wooden plank would be more useful in the other opening spot then warner atm. Smith had a horror series in india and has looked scratchy as hell in the two county dig's he's had so far to warm up for this series, carey couldn't buy a run in england and similiar to uzzie struggled on decks where the ball moves a ton so far in his test career, and Green's never played in england and is coming into this series after 3 months of IPL and no red ball cricket (we've seen him struggle to make the mental swap between formats a few times in his career already).

Could easily see this series turning into a marnus and head vs the world type situation if were not careful (tbf last ashes was basically smith+marnus and a bit of wade vs the world and even a bad series from uzzie up the top would be worth more than what we got between bancroft, harris and warner last ashes, but this england outfit is also a lot better than the one that rocked up in 2019).

 

[TheJediBrah]

I kinda get similar vibes about this current batting lineup, ngl. Usman's never been great in england and the only time he's opened on a deck with a ton of lateral movement like he'll see in england he got 2 single digit scores and looked terrible on the back of two hundreds in the middle order, and a wooden plank would be more useful in the other opening spot then warner atm. Smith had a horror series in india and has looked scratchy as hell in the two county dig's he's had so far to warm up for this series, carey couldn't buy a run in england and similiar to uzzie struggled on decks where the ball moves a ton so far in his test career, and Green's never played in england and is coming into this series after 3 months of IPL and no red ball cricket (we've seen him struggle to make the mental swap between formats a few times in his career already).

Could easily see this series turning into a marnus and head vs the world type situation if were not careful (tbf last ashes was basically smith+marnus and a bit of wade vs the world and even a bad series from uzzie up the top would be worth more than what we got between bancroft, harris and warner last ashes, but this england outfit is also a lot better than the one that rocked up in 2019).

jfc if we're relying on Marnus and Head in England we're ****ed