Official - Road to Ashes 2023

[TheJediBrah]

Harris definitely makes the WA shield side, there #3 is a 19 yo who averages 25 in fc cricket atm.

Said 19 year-old doesn't make the full strength side IMO.

Bancroft
Whiteman
S.Marsh
Green
M. Marsh
Hardie
Inglis
Agar
Richardson
Paris
Morris

If you you think S.Marsh in there is a cheat you've also got strong back ups like Philippe, Turner, Stoinis and D.Short.

If we're being completely literal Harris probably gets in there but he doesn't stand out. If he were to move to WA tomorrow he's not ousting Bancroft and Whiteman and likely only plays because S.Marsh is done.

 

[TheJediBrah]

50% of England's test squad is more than 11 players, so that's not bad going.

Assuming that statement was accurate, you think having the 12th best player in the country not making an Australian domestic side is not bad going?

 

[Brook's side]

Assuming that statement was accurate, you think having the 12th best player in the country not making an Australian domestic side is not bad going?

You're only allowed 11 players per side at cricket unfortunately.

 

[Starfighter]

The idea put forth was that random State level cricketers can turn up in CC and dominate but only the best English players would do well in Shield. I've explained why this is improbable and you're free to read that again as I'm not disposed to pointlessly repeating myself with more words like you.

Let's go back to what TJB actually said:

Yeah that's the thing, it would have to be the best England players playing to be appropriate. Whereas most half decent Aussies state players will dominate county cricket, or at the very least hold their won due to the lower standard.

Also County cricket is more commercialised, so it's normal to contract overseas players and make it worthwhile. A top-class English domestic cricketer isn't going to land a contract to play in the Shield like an Aus player is going to in England.

Note he specifies some level of ability. Most of us would not put Jack Edwards in the 'half decent' category - we think he's terrible. Do I think any of them would 'dominate'? No, but I never said that - TJB did. They can hold their own to the extent that County clubs apparently want to hire them. And they seem to get these gigs easily, which mystifies some of us.

You've specially stated that fringe players (who happen to have long careers not dominating in County) would dominate in the Shield. I don't see any evidence for that. It seems you don't acknowledge your own statements when quoted.

 

[Brook's side]

Said 19 year-old doesn't make the full strength side IMO.

Bancroft
Whiteman
S.Marsh
Green
M. Marsh
Hardie
Inglis
Agar
Richardson
Paris
Morris

If you you think S.Marsh in there is a cheat you've also got strong back ups like Philippe, Turner, Stoinis and D.Short.

If we're being completely literal Harris probably gets in there but he doesn't stand out. If he were to move to WA tomorrow he's not ousting Bancroft and Whiteman and likely only plays because S.Marsh is done.

I bet peak Windies are ****ting themselves looking at this.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You're only allowed 11 players per side at cricket unfortunately.

Hah I see what you meant, well played

still wrong though

I bet peak Windies are ****ting themselves looking at this.

If they played each other WA would destroy them

 

[Nintendo]

Said 19 year-old doesn't make the full strength side IMO.

Bancroft
Whiteman
S.Marsh
Green
M. Marsh
Hardie
Inglis
Agar
Richardson
Paris
Morris

If you you think S.Marsh in there is a cheat you've also got strong back ups like Philippe, Turner, Stoinis and D.Short.

If we're being completely literal Harris probably gets in there but he doesn't stand out. If he were to move to WA tomorrow he's not ousting Bancroft and Whiteman and likely only plays because S.Marsh is done.

S. Marsh is a bright young talent but unfortunately hamstring issues caused him to retire from state cricket.

Your right about turner though, after the 150 last shield final I could see WA picking that batting lineup but with mitch at 3 and turner at 5.

 

[TheJediBrah]

S. Marsh is a bright young talent but unfortunately hamstring issues caused him to retire from state cricket.

Your right about turner though, after the 150 last shield final I could see WA picking that batting lineup but with mitch at 3 and turner at 5.

Wyllie gets a game because he's young but realistically at the very least Turner and Philippe are better players right now

 

[Nintendo]

Wyllie gets a game because he's young but realistically at the very least Turner and Philippe are better players right now

Phillipe averaged 10 last shield season, he shouldn't be anywhere near WA's redball side atm.

 

[trundler]

Let's go back to what TJB actually said:

Note he specifies some level of ability. Most of us would not put Jack Edwards in the 'half decent' category - we think he's terrible. Do I think any of them would 'dominate'? No, but I never said that - TJB did. They can hold their own to the extent that County clubs apparently want to hire them. And they seem to get these gigs easily, which mystifies some of us.

You've specially stated that fringe players (who happen to have long careers not dominating in County) would dominate in the Shield. I don't see any evidence for that. It seems you don't acknowledge your own statements when quoted.

Division 1 is not a lower standard of cricket than Sheffield Shield cricket and thus fringe test cricketers who do well there would do well in Sheffield Shield. That is what I said and I brought up Harris to illustrate my first point. Another post irrelevant to my original point.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

S. Marsh is a bright young talent but unfortunately hamstring issues caused him to retire from state cricket.

Your right about turner though, after the 150 last shield final I could see WA picking that batting lineup but with mitch at 3 and turner at 5.

Would go Rocchiccioli over Agar too, but I suspect that isn't what would actually happen.

Well and truly time to move on from Agar the red ball bowler by now, arguably it should have been a couple of years ago

 

[TheJediBrah]

Division 1 is not a lower standard of cricket than Sheffield Shield cricket

Absolutely is

 

[trundler]

Absolutely is

Lol no

 

[TheJediBrah]

Lol no

No u

 

[Nintendo]

Division 1 is not a lower standard of cricket than Sheffield Shield cricket and thus fringe test cricketers who do well there would do well in Sheffield Shield. That is what I said and I brought up Harris to illustrate my first point. Another post irrelevant to my original point.

How does harris illustrate that point though? Harris averaged 42 in div 1 last year, and averaged 43 this shield season. Renshaw averaged 48 then averaged 51 in the shield. If anything there roughly equal?

 

[trundler]

How does harris illustrate that point though? Harris averaged 42 in div 1 last year, and averaged 43 this shield season. Renshaw averaged 48 then averaged 51 in the shield. If anything there roughly equal?

That's what I mean, it's not a lower standard. It's a similar standard. That's what I said to start with.

 

[Nintendo]

That's what I mean, it's not a lower standard. It's a similar standard. That's what I said to start with.

Ok that seems fair. I thought your point was that it was better because sam hain would perform better than jason sangha or something, my B for misconstruing what you said.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How does harris illustrate that point though? Harris averaged 42 in div 1 last year, and averaged 43 this shield season. Renshaw averaged 48 then averaged 51 in the shield. If anything there roughly equal?

Not that a couple of examples proves anything but if they're averaging roughly the same in completely foreign conditions, dukes ball etc. than they are in their home conditions that's a pretty big indication that the standard is different. If the standard was equal these Aussie batsmen growing up in Aus conditions should be averaging signficantly less in England. I feel like this is stating the obvious.

Not something to brag about obviously but the difference in performance for Aus batsmen overseas compared to at home has been pretty stark for a while now

 

[Shady Slim]

Ok that seems fair. I thought your point was that it was better because sam hain would perform better than jason sangha or something, my B for misconstruing what you said.

tbf nintendo you could perform better than jason sangha

 

[the big bambino]

Haha, no they wouldn't have. They would be better than Caleb Jewell and such at the very least.

Maybe they would but I think it would be against the odds given their problems with australian pitches. Now if the odds are against them the chances against an ordinary county opener are magnified. It's not even a question of the relative merits of the comparative fc systems. The point of difference is the conditions, especially the bounce, from bowlers capable of extracting it. They wouldn't handle it.