DRS

[thierry henry]

Yeah he seems to have reached a pretty convoluted conclusion there when the obvious conclusion is batters don't always know when they've hit it.

 

[Molehill]

The most interesting stat there is that a third of all lbw decisions given out are overturned. It should suggest to batting teams that they should always review an lbw as chances are a fair few will be umpire's call too so no review lost.

But why are so many overturned? I suspect it's ball bouncing over the top in most cases which umpires don't seem to have fully calculated.

 

[TheJediBrah]

But why are so many overturned?

Because generally umpires aren't exactly the peak examples of human potential or achievement

 

[Molehill]

Yeah he seems to have reached a pretty convoluted conclusion there when the obvious conclusion is batters don't always know when they've hit it.

Although, with a 59% success rate of batters overturning caught behind dismissals, it seems they have a better understanding of when they don't hit it.

 

[Ashes81]

Overall DRS works really well and does what it was designed to do - cut out the absolute howler.

I'd make 2 changes :
1. On LBWs if there are 2 umpire's call, its not out.
2. No soft signal for catches - let the DRS umpire decide

 

[TheJediBrah]

Overall DRS works really well and does what it was designed to do - cut out the absolute howler.

I'd make 2 changes :
1. On LBWs if there are 2 umpire's call, its not out.
2. No soft signal for catches - let the DRS umpire decide

Terrible idea. Batsman could be given out when hit pretty much in line with off-stump and have half the ball hitting the stumps (2 umpire's calls) and it would get overturned.

 

[Ashes81]

Terrible idea. Batsman could be given out when hit pretty much in line with off-stump and have half the ball hitting the stumps (2 umpire's calls) and it would get overturned.

Umpire's call is a marginal decision. I think if impact in line and hitting the stumps are both marginal calls, its not unreasonable to the benefit of the doubt to the batsmen.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Umpire's call is a marginal decision. I think if impact in line and hitting the stumps are both marginal calls, its not unreasonable to the benefit of the doubt to the batsmen.

It's not that marginal though when 49% off the ball is hitting in line and you want it overturned to be not out.

If anything it the opposite makes more sense and any of the ball hitting in line should simply be out.

 

[Dendarii]

2. No soft signal for catches - let the DRS umpire decide

And what if the camera angles are inconclusive? Sometimes it is actually easier to tell when you see it in person rather than trying to judge from a picture on a screen.

Maybe they need to do a similar thing to rugby and have be two ways that the third umpire is called upon. One would be where the on field umpire's fairly certain and there needs to be compelling evidence to overturn their decision, and the other would be where they don't know and it's solely up to the third umpire.

 

[trundler]

Any time people propose changes to DRS, the proposed system would be much more controversial if actually applied

 

[Ashes81]

It's not that marginal though when 49% off the ball is hitting in line and you want it overturned to be not out.

If anything it the opposite makes more sense and any of the ball hitting in line should simply be out.

I only want it to be not out if there are 2 umpire's calls on the same lbw decision.

If 49% of the ball is outside the line and if 49% of the ball is missing the stumps, then I think its a tough decision to be given out LBW.

 

[Ashes81]

And what if the camera angles are inconclusive? Sometimes it is actually easier to tell when you see it in person rather than trying to judge from a picture on a screen.

Maybe they need to do a similar thing to rugby and have be two ways that the third umpire is called upon. One would be where the on field umpire's fairly certain and there needs to be compelling evidence to overturn their decision, and the other would be where they don't know and it's solely up to the third umpire.

It's not so much with catches in the slips etc It's when the fielder is on the boundary edge, some 70 or 80 yards away and the umpire can't possible see if the ball has just touched the ground or not.

To give a soft signal has to be guess work. The umpire should be able to give no soft signal and let the 3rd umpire decide.

If the TV pictures are inconclusive then the decision should be not out.

 

[Brook's side]

There is the odd error with DRS (although obviously decisions are much more reliable with it than without it).

There was one on England's tour to Pakistan where DRS said it was going over the top of the stumps which was complete b******s.

Also, that one at Headlingley 2019, Lyon to Stokes with 2 to win but theyd run out of reviews. That was missing leg all day long.

 

[Brook's side]

I can't agree with an umpire's view on this because he will be biased in keeping him (or his currently working umpire buddy's) jobs intact as much as possible.

I'd say remove as many of the umpire's calls as possible, because the technology is inherently much more objective, and proven reliable over the years.

If you remove umpire's call, you remove the enthusiastic appeal. That's a part of cricket as much as cucumber sandwiches. Don't want to see bowlers just sticking their hand in the air for the tv umpire to register an appeal.

 

[Brook's side]

If you pause this one, you'll see the 3 balls aren't in a straight line:

If you pause this one, you'll see that the line is not straight (it actually changes direction after clipping the pad):

It actually looks more out than I remembered, but no way an umpire is ever giving that out.

 

[honestbharani]

Because generally umpires aren't exactly the peak examples of human potential or achievement

 

[shortpitched713]

If you pause this one, you'll see the 3 balls aren't in a straight line:

If you pause this one, you'll see that the line is not straight (it actually changes direction after clipping the pad):

Weird. It's predicting a change in trajectory as if he were a swing bowler, and not a spinner having the ball to break off the pitch. Definite bug.

 

[Brook's side]

Weird. It's predicting a change in trajectory as if he were a swing bowler, and not a spinner having the ball to break off the pitch. Definite bug.

It's weird because where it pitches looks bang on middle if you line it up visually with the image of the stumps. But then when you compare it to the tramlines, it must be middle and off.
The ball straightens a hell of a lot but not completely and is still sliding towards leg. Then it hits or passes his pad, and they show it then straightening completely. And they have it hitting....middle and off. I mean maybe it's hitting leg, but bang in between leg and middle? no way.

 

[Ali TT]

A Quick Visit to DRS - Charles Davis
7 March 2023

While I have it in front of me here are some broad stats on DRS, up to Jan 2023...

DRS called on: 4795 times
Umpire decision overturned: 1285 times = 2.87 per Test

LBW:
303 not out decisions overturned by DRS, out of 1935 reviews.
511 OUT decisions overturned out of 1638

CWK:
181 not out decisions overturned out of 608
161 OUT decisions overturned out of 273

Overall, there are more umpire decisions overturned in favour of batsmen than bowlers. However, the net effect is fairly small, averaging about one less dismissal every 2.4 Tests.

Conclusion: although DRS can have a major effect on individual innings, and on close matches in critical situations, its broad effect on statistics is not great.

Michael Jones commented that it is remarkable how many CWK OUT reviews, which are initiated by batsmen, are NOT overturned. You would think that the vast majority of batsmen would know when they have hit the ball. It shows that many reviews are desperation ploys, hoping somehow that a decision will be reversed without knowing how or why the reversal should apply. The figures also show that in many instances the players have little idea what is going on. Remember all those tantrums, before DRS, by bowlers and batsmen when a decision went against them? Well, much of the time they really had little idea whether the decision was right or wrong.

Interesting, thanks. I wonder if these figures have improved or not over time since DRS was introduced, although from what I saw of the India Australia series, the Aussies remain pretty awful at choosing when to use their reviews.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Any time people propose changes to DRS, the proposed system would be much more controversial if actually applied

So true. Every time someone says "DRS should be fixed by . . . " always their suggestion is objectively, significantly worse than the current system