The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Slifer]

I have to believe that the people at the telegraph are in their 20s, so they don't know much about cricket. Stokes, Cook and Kevin have no business being in an England XI.

 

[peterhrt]

Some All-Time England XIs from the past:

1914 [AE Stoddart]: Grace, Hobbs, Shrewsbury, MacLaren, Jackson, Ranjitsinhji, Lockwood, Peel, Lohmann, MacGregor+, Barnes.

1932 [Pelham Warner & English team touring Australia]: Grace, Hobbs, Ranjitsinhji, Hammond, Woolley, Ames+, AG Steel, FR Foster, Lockwood, Lohmann, Barnes.

1976 [Arlott, Swanton and Frith for The Cricketer]: Grace*, Hobbs, Hammond, Compton, Woolley, Ames+, Rhodes, Tate, Larwood, Laker, Barnes.

1980 [Fingleton]: Hobbs, Hutton, Grace*, Hammond, Compton, May, Hirst, Rhodes, Evans+, Larwood, Barnes.

2009 [Cricinfo - 10 English journalists]: Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barrington, Pietersen, Botham, Knott+, Larwood, Trueman, Underwood, Barnes.

2009 [Martin-Jenkins]: Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Compton, May, Botham, Knott+, Rhodes, Laker, Trueman, Barnes.

2020 [The Roar, Australian website]: Hobbs, Hutton*, Hammond, Compton, Barrington, Botham, Knott+, Trueman, Underwood, Anderson, Barnes.

Mike Atherton said the best four England batsmen he has seen during the past forty years are Gooch, Gower, Pietersen and Root. He declined to place them in order.

 

[The Sean]

An article in Wisden today selecting an All Time XI of players whose Test career was less than ten years. It seems that only post-war players were considered.

Mark Taylor
Conrad Hunte
Michael Vaughan
Kevin Pietersen
Alvin Kallicharan
Tony Greig
Adam Gilchrist
Mitchell Johnson
Andy Roberts
Saqlain Mushtaq
Allan Donald

 

[Coronis]

Some All-Time England XIs from the past:

1914 [AE Stoddart]: Grace, Hobbs, Shrewsbury, MacLaren, Jackson, Ranjitsinhji, Lockwood, Peel, Lohmann, MacGregor+, Barnes.

1932 [Pelham Warner & English team touring Australia]: Grace, Hobbs, Ranjitsinhji, Hammond, Woolley, Ames+, AG Steel, FR Foster, Lockwood, Lohmann, Barnes.

1976 [Arlott, Swanton and Frith for The Cricketer]: Grace*, Hobbs, Hammond, Compton, Woolley, Ames+, Rhodes, Tate, Larwood, Laker, Barnes.

1980 [Fingleton]: Hobbs, Hutton, Grace*, Hammond, Compton, May, Hirst, Rhodes, Evans+, Larwood, Barnes.

2009 [Cricinfo - 10 English journalists]: Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Barrington, Pietersen, Botham, Knott+, Larwood, Trueman, Underwood, Barnes.

2009 [Martin-Jenkins]: Hobbs, Hutton, Hammond, Compton, May, Botham, Knott+, Rhodes, Laker, Trueman, Barnes.

2020 [The Roar, Australian website]: Hobbs, Hutton*, Hammond, Compton, Barrington, Botham, Knott+, Trueman, Underwood, Anderson, Barnes.

Mike Atherton said the best four England batsmen he has seen during the past forty years are Gooch, Gower, Pietersen and Root. He declined to place them in order.

England hasn’t had an ATG bat in like 50 years, its quite sad. Aus, WI, India have all had multiple, SA, Pak and SL have all had at least 1. Root and Williamson could still change it for England and NZ.

 

[trundler]

An article in Wisden today selecting an All Time XI of players whose Test career was less than ten years. It seems that only post-war players were considered.

Mark Taylor
Conrad Hunte
Michael Vaughan
Kevin Pietersen
Alvin Kallicharan
Tony Greig
Adam Gilchrist
Mitchell Johnson
Andy Roberts
Saqlain Mushtaq
Allan Donald

Bill Ponsford surely if we go pre-War.

 

[The Sean]

Bill Ponsford surely if we go pre-War.

Ranji and McCabe were two who leapt out for me as well.

And most of the great 19th Century bowlers (Spofforth, Lohmann, Turner, Richardson) if we're going back that far.

It's probably fair enough at least to exclude pre-WWI though, as most careers were shorter then anyway.

 

[trundler]

Ranji and McCabe were two who leapt out for me as well.

And most of the great 19th Century bowlers (Spofforth, Lohmann, Turner, Richardson) if we're going back that far.

It's probably fair enough at least to exclude pre-WWI though, as most careers were shorter then anyway.

Leyland came to mind too but he misses the cutoff by 9 days.

 

[Red]

England

Hutton
Hobbs
Hammond
May
Barrington
Botham
Knott
Larwood
Barnes
Laker
Trueman

 

[trundler]

Larwood over Anderson is a meme opinion now.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

An article in Wisden today selecting an All Time XI of players whose Test career was less than ten years. It seems that only post-war players were considered.

Mark Taylor
Conrad Hunte
Michael Vaughan
Kevin Pietersen
Alvin Kallicharan
Tony Greig
Adam Gilchrist
Mitchell Johnson
Andy Roberts
Saqlain Mushtaq
Allan Donald

They obviously didn't consider any of Eddie Barlow, Barry Richards, Graeme Pollock, and Mike Procter because they'd all be shoo ins. Actually Barlow v Hunte would be close, but Eddie's bowling gives him the edge.

Taylor and Vaughan very lucky to be in there.

 

[Pothas]

Larwood over Anderson is a meme opinion now.

May over Root not far off as well.

 

[Pothas]

Hutton
Hobbs
Barrington
Hammond
Root
Ames
Botham
Verity
Trueman
Barnes
Anderson

 

[peterhrt]

Two more England teams from members of The Cricket Society, thirty years apart:

1949: Grace*, Hobbs, Ranjitsinhji, Hammond, Compton, Jackson, Ames+, Rhodes, Lockwood or Larwood, Richardson, Barnes.

1979: Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Grace*, Hammond, Compton, Rhodes, Knott+, Laker, Larwood or Richardson, Trueman, Barnes.

 

[trundler]

England hasn’t had an ATG bat in like 50 years, its quite sad. Aus, WI, India have all had multiple, SA, Pak and SL have all had at least 1. Root and Williamson could still change it for England and NZ.

Miandad and Younis are both bonafide ATGs.

 

[Pothas]

Two more England teams from members of The Cricket Society, thirty years apart:

1949: Grace*, Hobbs, Ranjitsinhji, Hammond, Compton, Jackson, Ames+, Rhodes, Lockwood or Larwood, Richardson, Barnes.

1979: Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Grace*, Hammond, Compton, Rhodes, Knott+, Laker, Larwood or Richardson, Trueman, Barnes.

Richardson still being there in 79 is kind of surprising.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Grace
Hammond
Root
Woakes*
Knott
Verity
Trueman
Barnes

 

[The Sean]

Richardson still being there in 79 is kind of surprising.

Cardus had annointed him as one of the Six Giants of the Wisden Century in the 1960s, so that's have been relatively fresh in the memory.

Interesting as well that it seems Hutton didn't get any love until the 1980s onwards.

 

[HookShot]

Hutton
Hobbs
Barrington
Hammond
Root
Ames
Botham
Verity
Trueman
Barnes
Anderson

Ames‘ batting average against Australia was 27, a significant drop from his over all average of 40. And as we all know Botham failed against the best bowling attack of his era, the West Indies.

So in an ATG context more than half of that side would struggle making runs, especially as none of the last 4 are bowling allrounders. Although Verity was admittedly a solid and handy bat.

 

[Red]

Larwood over Anderson is a meme opinion now.

What is a “meme opinion”?

I’ve read most of the books written on Larwood and I rate him incredibly highly as a cricketer.

 

[ataraxia]

What is a “meme opinion”?

I’ve read most of the books written on Larwood and I rate him incredibly highly as a cricketer.

I think it's that if you rate Larwood over Anderson, you really have no desire to apply appropriate longevity and era-adjusting standards (yadda yadda)