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Sachin Tendulkar vs Jacques Kallis

Who was the better test cricketer?


  • Total voters
    55

Sunil1z

International Regular
Are we allowed to compare 200 Tests with 166 Tests? Coz you know, Kallis wins that one too!!
There was already a Kallis vs Tendulkar thread 3 months ago , you can find that thread and add your points there. If you find that thread , you will see that I had already mentioned that Kallis is highly under rated on this forum .
No need to be in this combative mode .
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
There was already a Kallis vs Tendulkar thread 3 months ago , you can find that thread and add your points there. If you find that thread , you will see that I had already mentioned that Kallis is highly under rated on this forum .
No need to be in this combative mode .
Sorry if it comes across as combative. But as a complete neutral in this battle, I just don't see the stats to back up the Tendulkar reasoning. Against pretty much everybody else yes, but Kallis is a complete freak who you can compare with Sobers.
 

Sunil1z

International Regular
Sorry if it comes across as combative. But as a complete neutral in this battle, I just don't see the stats to back up the Tendulkar reasoning. Against pretty much everybody else yes, but Kallis is a complete freak who you can compare with Sobers.
I don’t rate Tendulkar/McGrath as better cricketer than Kallis . But those who do rate them higher , don’t value Kallis batting.
Let’s just say defensive batsman like Kallis/Dravid/Chanderpaul aren’t rated that high on this forum.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
I h8 cricketer rankings, what are we even ranking them on? Here's my problem:

So my thinking is that the small Tendulkar–Kallis gap in batting is offset by the large Kallis–Tendulkar gaps in bowling, fielding, braainess, and forum thread eponymity.

Or another way I sometimes look at this terribly important issue is that Kallis is normally more valuable to a team than Tendulkar as he allows for greater team balance due to his bowling prowess. Or is it that Kallis has simply done moar? How do you actually rate all-rounders here, comparing them to specialists on what they actually do or to a basic replacement 27bat–35bowl AR (think Wins Above Replacement in #baseball)?

Which brings us to this question: are we standardising these 'cricketers' relative to their disclipline? Normally I'd be all for that, but it seems logical given the framing of the question that those who achieve more are better; a Barnes or Murali who bowls so much would be ranked as a cricketer.

If we do opt to not standardise, then bowlers are king. Bowlers on the whole are ~as important as batters on the whole and bowlers are lesser in number in a team, unless you're in the world of NZ domestix. What's more, bowlers tend to be more proficient at batting than batters are at bowling. It stands to reason that McGrath > Tendulkar going by this, one of many perspectives.

Yet that, which seems like it should be the CW consensus view, is not. McGrath = Kallis > Tendulkar – nope. We look to be at Tendulkar > Kallis >= McGrath. Hmm, we say. What?, we snarl. Is the batriarchy upon us? Well I haven't a clue – you see, there's a lot of unresolved question marks in this post (? questionable statement, there's only 4? edit: oops, 5 now I think? aw crap that's 1-2-3-4-5-6? Ah well, blast this: interrobang‽).
 

trundler

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Tendulkar is the best batsman after Bradman by a small but notable margin along with Hobbs. McGrath is the best pace bowler ever along with Marshall. There are several all rounders definitely better than Kallis and more batsmen still so relative to their disciplines McGrath and Tendulkar are better. Simples.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
There are several all rounders definitely better than Kallis
Several definitely better? Really?

This time last year we did a big CW vote on the top 25 allrounders of all time and Kallis placed 3rd behind Sobers (1) and Imran (2).

The top 10 were

Sobers, Imran, Kallis, Miller, Botham, Shakib, Kapil, Faulkner, Hadlee, S Pollock
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Tendulkar is the best batsman after Bradman by a small but notable margin along with Hobbs. McGrath is the best pace bowler ever along with Marshall. There are several all rounders definitely better than Kallis and more batsmen still so relative to their disciplines McGrath and Tendulkar are better. Simples.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but there's little statistical evidence to back it up. I'd always sooner watch Lara bat personally.
Several definitely better? Really?

This time last year we did a big CW vote on the top 25 allrounders of all time and Kallis placed 3rd behind Sobers (1) and Imran (2).

The top 10 were

Sobers, Imran, Kallis, Miller, Botham, Shakib, Kapil, Faulkner, Hadlee, S Pollock
On another forum, we once held a World Cup for cricketers, a knockout 128 tournament. Sobers beat Bradman in the Final, the losing semi finalists were Warne and WG Grace (for whom a cricket historian on the board had superbly argued his undoubted influence on the game).
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but there's little statistical evidence to back it up. I'd always sooner watch Lara bat personally.


On another forum, we once held a World Cup for cricketers, a knockout 128 tournament. Sobers beat Bradman in the Final, the losing semi finalists were Warne and WG Grace (for whom a cricket historian on the board had superbly argued his undoubted influence on the game).
Interesting. Was the vote on who was the best, or who was the most influential/famous?
 

trundler

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Several definitely better? Really?

This time last year we did a big CW vote on the top 25 allrounders of all time and Kallis placed 3rd behind Sobers (1) and Imran (2).

The top 10 were

Sobers, Imran, Kallis, Miller, Botham, Shakib, Kapil, Faulkner, Hadlee, S Pollock
Consider that there are far fewer all rounders. Sobers, Imran and Miller are definitely better as all rounders for mine and Hadlee/Pollock etc are on par. Not sure how a Kapil or Shakib fares considering the different roles but regardless he's bunched up in the second grouping. Putting Kallis up there with Sobers is a grotesque exaggeration based only on the most surface level glance at things. Kallis's AR credentials are far closer to Worrell than Sobers.
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but there's little statistical evidence to back it up. I'd always sooner watch Lara bat personally.
Except the fact that Tendulkar is better in every measurable way.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Interesting. Was the vote on who was the best, or who was the most influential/famous?
I don't think it could've been the best, because it's hard to argue that Grace's numbers would stack up well even allowing for time differences. But his overall influence on Test Cricket as a whole was what kept on ploughing him through the rounds.

I think we did this back in about 2008. A few new faces would have entered that 128 since then. I think you could potentially add Anderson, Broad, Smith, Ashwin, Cook, Steyn and possibly Lyon/Root/Kohli/Williamson too.
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
One of us is biased with regards to Kallis, but it isn't me.
Show one post where I have said that Kallis is better than another player...

Just to be clear I have basically only argued against bullshit regarding Kallis to denigrate a great player because they did not like his style of play... I don't comment on which player I think is better because its such a subjective load of personal bias nonsense.
 

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