*Official* Australia in India 2023

[silentstriker]

Man both Bumrah and Pant played well the last Test at the Oval.

As did Yadav and Jadeja. It’s rough leaving out Ashwin though.

1. Rohit 2. Gill 3. Pujara 4. Kohli 5. ?? 6. Bharat. 7. Jadeja 8. Ashwin and then three fast bowlers including Yadav and Shami. Not sure about the third. Shami didn’t play that match and Siraj didn’t bowl that well.

 

[trundler]

Self care is scrolling past centurymaker's posts any time there's a big series or tournament

 

[Gob]

People were way too premature with Smith imo, I refer to those labelling him the all-time 2nd best since Bradman when I'm still not even convinced he's Australia's 2nd best remembering Ponting was averaging 59.99 after 107 tests.

I always said once Smith has a lean unlucky spell which all players have and his average finishes in the mid to late 50s, then he'll be one of a handful of top notch players in the discussion, Tendulkar, Hammond etc. Let's wait until he finishes up.

This is such a basic way of looking at things that you are completely ignoring the context. 60 plus average is not the only thing that makes/made Smith great. Ponting was my hero growing up so it pains me to have a dig at him but he never had kind of away serieses Smith has had in England and India, significantly inferior against spin and not as adoptable overall.

This is only the second time I've seen Smith failing to make a significant contribution to a high profile series (first being SA 2018) and its amusing to see all the detractors like flogmaker coming out in full flight. Maybe its the opportunity you get once in ten years so you may as well take it

 

[Sunil1z]

Yeah as good as Ponting was I would never put him in Tendulkar/Lara Class . Whereas Smith as done enough to be put in that Class .

Only thing Smith lacks now is longevity

 

[trundler]

If you think Smith has done more than Ponting away already then it is fair to rank him above him but what doesn't make sense is if you think he's better already but would drop him below Ponting depending on his decline or that Ponting would've been better if he retired with an average of 60 after 107 tests.

 

[slippy888]

Shubman Gill is heading towards greatness

 

[Nintendo]

If you think Smith has done more than Ponting away already then it is fair to rank him above him but what doesn't make sense is if you think he's better already but would drop him below Ponting depending on his decline or that Ponting would've been better if he retired with an average of 60 after 107 tests.

Just on that, smith has played 96 odd tests at this point and is averaging a tad under 60. A larger chunk of his career and part of his peak coincided with a much harder batting era then ponting's did and smith's peak was better, plus smith's peak performance series are IMO better than ponting's (Can't think of a series he had that was as good as the 2019 ashes or 2017 border gavaskar), and if smith haden't lost a year in his peak due to a ban hede probably have played as much cricket as ponting and had that ~60 average.

Ponting had a pretty massive dropoff after his peak where he averaged in the 40's from memory in an era where batting was still far easier than it is now. It would be hard for smith to drop off as hard if not more than punter did and even if he did he has the advantage of a better peak.

 

[Nintendo]

Shubman Gill is heading towards greatness

Who is better shubman gill or matthew renshaw in your wise opinion?

 

[Sunil1z]

If you think Smith has done more than Ponting away already then it is fair to rank him above him but what doesn't make sense is if you think he's better already but would drop him below Ponting depending on his decline or that Ponting would've been better if he retired with an average of 60 after 107 tests.

I rate players by their career averages not peak performance.

 

[trundler]

I rate players by their career averages not peak performance.

But what if one player has a 'peak' longer than the other's career. Smith can be considered better than Ponting because of his away performances which probably exceed Punter's best as it is and 40 tests of mediocrity wouldn't change that. Think Ponting in the 90s faced overall bowling strength as good as Smith post 2018 and Smith had some really, really roady pitches at home for the most part before the ban so the thing that separates them is how they've both done away i.e in India and England. It's a qualitative difference, not quantitative.

PS: Ponting > Greg Chappell = Harvey because you've gotta equate for longevity.

 

[slippy888]

Not a fan of play being called off with 1 hour to spare if game is heading towards draw, I think the overs should be bowled regardless. There are careers and jobs on the line in international cricket.

 

[Nintendo]

But what if one player has a 'peak' longer than the other's career. Smith can be considered better than Ponting because of his away performances which probably exceed Punter's best as it is and 40 tests of mediocrity wouldn't change that. Think Ponting in the 90s faced overall bowling strength as good as Smith post 2018 and Smith had some really, really roady pitches at home for the most part before the ban so the thing that separates them is how they've both done away i.e in India and England. It's a qualitative difference, not quantitative.

PS: Ponting > Greg Chappell = Harvey because you've gotta equate for longevity.

Punters peak doesn't include the 90's. He averaged 70 odd across in a 70-75 match stretch from 2002 to 2007-08. Either side of that he averaged in the 40s. Smith's peak was 70-75 matches from the start of the home border Gavaskar just after Hughes passing to the end of the 2019 ashes or maybe the 3rd test where he made that double. He averaged 75 in that period. Part of Smith's peak was inside that batting paradise era from early 2000's-2016, all of pontings was. Smith also played in a weaker team (not as relevant, but worth bringing up).

Theres obviously factors in punters favour, but I think Smith's peak is clearly a level above punters (unless you define it differently, which I don't know why you would).

 

[silentstriker]

Not a fan of play being called off with 1 hour to spare if game is heading towards draw, I think the overs should be bowled regardless. There are careers and jobs on the line in international cricket.

It’s pointless. Pujara and Gill were bowling ffs. Whose career could possibly be affected if they got out to or scored a ton off Pujara and Gill?

 

[Sunil1z]

2017 series had 14000 posts . This one is yet to touch 10000. Guess Test 1-3 getting over in 2.5 days , didn’t help.

 

[OverratedSanity]

2017 series had 14000 posts . This one is yet to touch 10000. Guess Test 1-3 getting over in 2.5 days , didn’t help.

Also that was a better series because Australia took the lead and also had more controversy/meme value.

This one might have been much spicier if Australia had won the second test, which they really should have.

 

[trundler]

Punters peak doesn't include the 90's. He averaged 70 odd across in a 70-75 match stretch from 2002 to 2007-08. Either side of that he averaged in the 40s. Smith's peak was 70-75 matches from the start of the home border Gavaskar just after Hughes passing to the end of the 2019 ashes or maybe the 3rd test where he made that double. He averaged 75 in that period. Part of Smith's peak was inside that batting paradise era from early 2000's-2016, all of pontings was. Smith also played in a weaker team (not as relevant, but worth bringing up).

Theres obviously factors in punters favour, but I think Smith's peak is clearly a level above punters (unless you define it differently, which I don't know why you would).

Ponting had a longer period of ATG production. I don't think Smith has averaged 70 odd over the same number of tests. Could be wrong here but that time frame is about 50 tests and 4-5 years (accounting for the ban). Ponting averaged 70 odd over 70ish tests. Also, their records in bowling friendly eras pretty much cancel out. Ponting was pretty good in the 90s given his age and Smith has been good but not great in the bowling friendly era part of his career. Ponting was great from 1999-2000, sucked in 2001 then was the best batsman in the world for most of 2002-2008 with a few failures in there. Ftr, before the ban, I thought Kohli and Smith were pretty much even stevens, all things considered. I just don't think Smith dominated harder than Ponting at his peak. The main difference between them is that Smith did more of that away. Also not considering Ponting from tests 110 on because Smith isn't at that point in his career yet so it's irrelevant for me

 

[Sunil1z]

Also that was a better series because Australia took the lead and also had more controversy/meme value.

This one might have been much spicier if Australia had won the second test, which they really should have.

Yeah , this series lacked this

 

[Nintendo]

Yeah my b on that I rememered my numbers wrong. I don't have the tweet about it anymore but I think it was 60ish match peak. I've attempted to voodoo it as best I can on statsguru while at the gym and this is what I got.

If you extend punters an extra year to start of 08 he plays 5 odd tests and the average drops to 70, think that was what the tweet said cause his avg was defs 70, unsure how Smith's was 75 because it drops if you go any wider.

My point still stands, smith averaged a bit better or the same depending on how you do it for a ~60 match peak with part of and the best series of his peak coinciding with the 2017 pace playing pandemic in a weaker team while punters came entirely in the 2000's batting paradise in a goat AUS team. There's probably other factors that bring it closer but I think Smith's away performance that I haven't accounted for would make up for that.

Worst case there peaks are equal.

 

[Nintendo]

Yeah my b on that I rememered my numbers wrong. I don't have the tweet about it anymore but I think it was 60ish match peak. I've attempted to voodoo it as best I can on statsguru while at the gym and this is what I got.

If you extend punters an extra year to start of 08 he plays 5 odd tests and the average drops to 70, think that was what the tweet said cause his avg was defs 70, unsure how Smith's was 75 because it drops if you go any wider.

My point still stands, smith averaged a bit better or the same depending on how you do it for a ~60 match peak with part of and the best series of his peak coinciding with the 2017 pace playing pandemic in a weaker team while punters came entirely in the 2000's batting paradise in a goat AUS team. There's probably other factors that bring it closer but I think Smith's away performance that I haven't accounted for would make up for that.

Worst case there peaks are equal.

Just for reference, if you take punters to end of 09 the peak is 65 over 75, which may have actually been what was used in the tweet since I'm sure it was 75 matches. Smith has a 64.5 over 70-75 if you go from his return to the team in early 13 to the end of the 4th ashes test in 2019.

I'm sorry for ****ing this up, trying to go off memory while being powered by caffeine was a bad call on my end.

 

[srbhkshk]

It’s pointless. Pujara and Gill were bowling ffs. Whose career could possibly be affected if they got out to or scored a ton off Pujara and Gill?

Mine.