*Official* Australia in India 2023

[Brook's side]

On Captaincy debate : Smith vs Cummins

NATHON LYON

Captains	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Avg	Econ	SR	5w	10w
*MJ Clarke	2011-2015	42	81	1554.5	313	4844	142	7/152	12/286	34.11	3.11	65.6	6	1
*PJ Cummins	2021-2023	15	25	673.0	142	1811	60	6/128	9/121	30.18	2.69	67.3	4	0
*TD Paine	2018-2021	23	44	1163.4	226	3255	98	6/49	10/118	33.21	2.79	71.2	6	1
*SPD Smith	2014-2023	37	70	1656.2	313	4829	170	8/50	13/154	28.40	2.91	58.4	6	2
*SR Watson	2013-2013	1	2	38.4	4	165	9	7/94	9/165	18.33	4.26	25.7	1	0

Based on above stats, one feels Smith is a better captain for spinners. His field placements, for Lyon, are better & innovative. He understands spin bowling much better. Being a spinner also helps.

Smith is not unusual in this case. Misbah was also a better captain for spinners. Abd-ul-Rehman, Ajmal, Zulfiqar Babar & Yasir Shah prospered under him. Uncle Nauman bowled better when Misbah was around (as a coach).

Smith may be a better captain for spinners, but your stats are at best incredibly weak evidence of that.

Lyon averages 28 under 1 captain and 30 under the other, so the first one must be a better captain????

 

[honestbharani]

Dhoni a good example of another captain who was better with spinners. Azhar too.


@ Aussie fans here - seems saltshakerz has set his stall on your side. You know whom to blame when they crash and burn. ?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Smith being a terrible captain for spinners was actually the widespread (and correct) opinion not long ago, so this take is certainly a surprise to me.

 

[Spark]

Smith being a terrible captain for spinners was actually the widespread (and correct) opinion not long ago, so this take is certainly a surprise to me.

Yeah this is the first game where I've felt he actually had a knack for how to set fields and control the tempo of the game in spinning conditions. He didn't really impress me or anyone else in 2017 in that regard; I thought he could have been far more proactive in stifling Pujara, Rahane and Rahul when they built matchwinning partnerships.

 

[Shri]

don't think it was anything spectacular tactics wise

our ****s were just ****

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, like the only good things I noticed were that he had moved himself to legslip instead of first slip for the spinners, which India also did with Virat. I know he brought on Kuhneman early but so did Cummins last game. I am not very sure if any great field placing resulted in any wickets and there certainly wasn't a spell of dry bowling like we saw with Murphy and Kuhneman in the 2nd test when we were chasing the 100 odd target.

 

[Spark]

Yeah, like the only good things I noticed were that he had moved himself to legslip instead of first slip for the spinners, which India also did with Virat. I know he brought on Kuhneman early but so did Cummins last game. I am not very sure if any great field placing resulted in any wickets and there certainly wasn't a spell of dry bowling like we saw with Murphy and Kuhneman in the 2nd test when we were chasing the 100 odd target.

This I don't agree with. Most of the Indian 2nd innings involved fairly dry bowling, it's just that the pitch conditions allowed dry bowling to be very attacking too. Murphy doesn't go at 1rpo by bowling an attacking wide line.

Mostly he just seemed to react far quicker to the match situation and didn't let things just trundle along and threaten to get out of hand, the way it did when Axar and Ashwin put on their partnership at Delhi and Cummins just sort of let it happen.

 

[Shri]

the pitch was slow in delhi. cummins couldn't have done much. indore was different and he would have probably had the same success regardless of what he did tactics wise

 

[subshakerz]

@ Aussie fans here - seems saltshakerz has set his stall on your side. You know whom to blame when they crash and burn. ?

I formally withhold all support until the end of the series.

 

[honestbharani]

This I don't agree with. Most of the Indian 2nd innings involved fairly dry bowling, it's just that the pitch conditions allowed dry bowling to be very attacking too. Murphy doesn't go at 1rpo by bowling an attacking wide line.

Mostly he just seemed to react far quicker to the match situation and didn't let things just trundle along and threaten to get out of hand, the way it did when Axar and Ashwin put on their partnership at Delhi and Cummins just sort of let it happen.

Yeah but I also dont think the pitch in Indore challenged him to a situation where he had to do anything like that. And its not exactly a dry bowling strategy when the pitch assists as much as it does tbh. Dry bowling as a strategy is really only worth mentioning when its a fairly easy paced one for batting. Otherwise, every bowling assisting conditions spell is a spell of dry bowling.

Anyways, we are caught up on semantics. While I can see why people would wanna big him up coz he won in India when it looked like they had no chance of winning before the game, I do believe there was not enough to suggest it was anything captaincy inspired. That is all, at least tactically. ?‍

 

[Ashes81]

It's amazing how this series has turned around.

Initially the big question was could the Aussie batsmen deal with the Indian spinners on helpful pitches.

Now the boot is on the other foot - can India's top order deal with Lyon and Co.

The last test was all about Indias's 1st innings - it was never a 100 all out pitch. From that moment, the Aussies had control of the test and did what they had to do to win comfortably in the end.

Obviously we don't know what the pitch will be like yet for the final test, but if it turns from day 1, then India's top order will need to perform better or this will end 2-2.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith being a terrible captain for spinners was actually the widespread (and correct) opinion not long ago, so this take is certainly a surprise to me.

Under Smith, Australia regressed briefly to being a mid-tier team after being whitewashed in SL and losing at home to SA in 2016. Then he rebounded after some home series wins.

 

[subshakerz]

It sounds like you guys are pretty much in turmoil. Don't know who your skipper is or whether any of the candidates are any good. Arguing over one of your key batsmen's any good or not. Agreed one of your most experienced players isn't fit to tour. Concerned that one of your leading fast bowlers has lost it.

Sounds like the wheels are coming off already.

It's not that bad really.

 

[Socerer 01]

It sounds like you guys are pretty much in turmoil. Don't know who your skipper is or whether any of the candidates are any good. Arguing over one of your key batsmen's any good or not. Agreed one of your most experienced players isn't fit to tour. Concerned that one of your leading fast bowlers has lost it.

Sounds like the wheels are coming off already.

Warner is key batsman??

 

[Gob]

lol they won a test match in India like

Put any team in the world here for four tests and wheels will come off pretty quickly. I actually love to see England get a go would absolutely stink it up

 

[Socerer 01]

yeah saying the wheels have fallen off for the side to inflict only the 3rd defeat in a decade on a dominant home team is something

 

[Socerer 01]

Warner = Most experienced player everyone wants dropped
Head = Key batsman with weak confidence of Aus fans
Smith = Centre of captaincy debacle
Cummins = Centre of captaincy debacle
Hazelwood = Key bowler with weak confidence of Aus fans
Wheel = Fallen off the cart

no Australia fan wants Head dropped least of all for Ashes. they’re bigging him up like no one ever before

having doubts on Hazlewood fitness doesn’t mean weak confidence, if he is fit Hazlewood is world class and would play

 

[the big bambino]

It's amazing how this series has turned around.

Initially the big question was could the Aussie batsmen deal with the Indian spinners on helpful pitches.

Now the boot is on the other foot - can India's top order deal with Lyon and Co.

The last test was all about Indias's 1st innings - it was never a 100 all out pitch. From that moment, the Aussies had control of the test and did what they had to do to win comfortably in the end.

Obviously we don't know what the pitch will be like yet for the final test, but if it turns from day 1, then India's top order will need to perform better or this will end 2-2.

Not sure if it has. India over did the spin meme and produced a wicket that ragged it from day one. It made our spinners, who are fairly decent, competitive with their Indian counterparts. Expect India to go back to the kind of pitch for the first two tests. Though a draw producing road to protect the series lead isn’t out of the question.

 

[sphynx]

Warner = Most experienced player everyone wants dropped
Head = Key batsman with weak confidence of Aus fans
Smith = Centre of captaincy debacle
Cummins = Centre of captaincy debacle
Hazelwood = Key bowler with weak confidence of Aus fans
Wheel = Fallen off the cart

You are obviously English, so really unaware of the Head situation.

The only people lacking confidence in Head were the data analysts of the Aus cricket team. The reason he came back for the following test WAS the public outcry from the fans. Selectors took pelters on talkback for the entire 2 weeks.

He’s probably close to the most liked Aus cricketer at the moment.

Is absolutely the #1 danger wicket for England leading into the Ashes, as when he gets into gear he pretty much ignores the bowling/pitch, and he can do to England what Brook can do to us.

 

[Anil]

Not sure if it has. India over did the spin meme and produced a wicket that ragged it from day one. It made our spinners, who are fairly decent, competitive with their Indian counterparts. Expect India to go back to the kind of pitch for the first two tests. Though a draw producing road to protect the series lead isn’t out of the question.

no road is going to "protect" this indian batting lineup...their only chance is to stay aggressive and go for 3-1 on a difficult pitch which will hopefully level the playing field a little...