Ravindra Jadeja vs Nathan Lyon

[Prince EWS]

You've been claiming for three months that the best way to win in India is to ignore conditions completely and just pick the exact same attack that we would Day 1 at Brisbane, you don't get to claim that a game where we've picked three frontline spinners is consistent with what you've been posting

Either you pick an attack for the conditions or you just have a set "this is our best attack, conditions be damned", you can't have both

I think a more interesting thing to unpack than the obvious truth that social would not have actually picked this attack based on his methodology is what the implications of him saying otherwise are.

Lets say Australia's next Test actually is in Brisbane. Lets also say Cummins and Haze are injured. The logical implication here is that he'd actually pick three spinners in Brisbane because he's claiming they're the best bowlers.

He either thinks Kuhnemann is better than Boland, and would pick three spinners in Brisbane - or alternatively, he doesn't, and he'd have played Boland ahead of Kuhnemann here. Is Boland better than Kuhnemann, social?

I reckon he's ****ed either way, but no doubt he'll reply to my post with gratuitous claims that don't address what I said. Would be keen for #dinner either way. ATG poster.

 

[Sunil1z]

Yes, thanks to WI.

Younis Khan greatest Pak bat averages 22 there .

 

[Flem274*]

I think you should pick the bowlers who are good that get the wickets in the conditions.

 

[Starfighter]

I was not making a Jadeja vs Ashwin argument . My point was there were several games where both should have played. Jadeja makes the team as a batsman alone and has done for a long time.

Posters have consistently used this selection quandary of "Who to pick between ashwin and Jadeja" as a knock against both of them for years depending on which player they're arguing for/against. It is complete horse****.

For the former, maybe. Evidently the Indian selectors though someone else provided better value. I think the value of Jadeja's batting and that he could bat 6/7 took quite a while to become clear. Like it or not four bowlers is the default thinking in cricket.

I don't recall seeing the argument you state. The main knocks delivered against them are the inside/outside Asia disparities in a time where Asianpitches are seen (with some reason IMO) as being more spin friendly than in prior decades.

My own opinion has come watching and filling in what I can when I cannot watch. I think Jadeja was the better bowler outside Asia and possibly overall earlier, but more recently I'm leaning to Ashwin overall, and possibly even overseas, because personally I think he's improved while Jadeja hasn't.

 

[subshakerz]

Younis Khan greatest Pak bat averages 22 there .

That's great. Means he averages more against tougher teams.

 

[Burgey]

I’m surprised at the number of people saying lyon is a better bowler than Jadeja tbh. I think it’s really not that easy to work out because their career trajectories are so different.

By that I mean it’s not jadeja’s fault he hasn’t always been picked everywhere. I suspect if he had been his average would go up a bit, but I’m not convinced it would get as high as Lyon’s. I’m probably a bit coloured by his Midas touch against our blokes but he’s quality. I think he wins this comparison, not easily but not line ball either, if that makes sense. And I say that as a lyon fan.

 

[subshakerz]

Poor Lyon. It's takes a freaking 8-fer for him to get an edge bump in this poll. A couple of months from now, once forgotten, the same poll will have Jadeja 10 points up.

 

[Spark]

I really think Lyon is a damn good bowler, criminally underrated by many. But Jadeja has that extra bit of nous and guile that Lyon has probably just lacked at times when he's stubbornly bowled just that little bit too straight. Jadeja just knows how to get ***** out.

 

[Sunil1z]

That's great. Means he averages more against tougher teams.

For Pak , WI can’t be weaker team when they have won 1 Test series there in their entire history.

WI at home can’t be considered weak teams against ENG / PAK imo.

 

[Sunil1z]

To make my point clear again I rate Lyon highly . Hope other posters don’t jump in illogical arguments between me and Social .

 

[social]

You've been claiming for three months that the best way to win in India is to ignore conditions completely and just pick the exact same attack that we would Day 1 at Brisbane, you don't get to claim that a game where we've picked three frontline spinners is consistent with what you've been posting

Either you pick an attack for the conditions or you just have a set "this is our best attack, conditions be damned", you can't have both

Look at the injuries and selection ****ups

Haze, Green & Starc were never going to be available for the first 2 tests so let’s go random with the longest tail in recent history

Agar ugh

Morris ugh

Renshaw ugh

Etc etc

Here’s an idea - let’s pick the worst possible options

India 2-0

Now let’s analyse the main reasons why we won this test

Uzi - obvious

Warner going home - fail

Head - dropped from first test so massive fail

Kuhnemann - not even picked in squad so massive fail

Lyon - obvious

 

[social]

I think a more interesting thing to unpack than the obvious truth that social would not have actually picked this attack based on his methodology is what the implications of him saying otherwise are.

Lets say Australia's next Test actually is in Brisbane. Lets also say Cummins and Haze are injured. The logical implication here is that he'd actually pick three spinners in Brisbane because he's claiming they're the best bowlers.

He either thinks Kuhnemann is better than Boland, and would pick three spinners in Brisbane - or alternatively, he doesn't, and he'd have played Boland ahead of Kuhnemann here. Is Boland better than Kuhnemann, social?

I reckon he's ****ed either way, but no doubt he'll reply to my post with gratuitous claims that don't address what I said. Would be keen for #dinner either way. ATG poster.

Sure dude

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Recency bias I feel, Jadeja is better in my opinion ..can be a Frontline spinner but also just hold up an end when Ashwin is doing his thing that's versatility so a team player ..Lyon seems to like being a lone wolf

 

[Godard]

Poor Lyon. It's takes a freaking 8-fer for him to get an edge bump in this poll. A couple of months from now, once forgotten, the same poll will have Jadeja 10 points up.

Who do you thinks better between Lyon and Ashwin dude?

 

[Burgey]

I really think Lyon is a damn good bowler, criminally underrated by many. But Jadeja has that extra bit of nous and guile that Lyon has probably just lacked at times when he's stubbornly bowled just that little bit too straight. Jadeja just knows how to get ****s out.

Agree with this, with the obvious caveat they’re both operating under the genetic disadvantage of being finger spinners

 

[Spark]

Look at the injuries and selection ****ups

Haze, Green & Starc were never going to be available for the first 2 tests so let’s go random with the longest tail in recent history

Agar ugh

Morris ugh

Renshaw ugh

Etc etc

Here’s an idea - let’s pick the worst possible options

India 2-0

Now let’s analyse the main reasons why we won this test

Uzi - obvious

Warner going home - fail

Head - dropped from first test so massive fail

Kuhnemann - not even picked in squad so massive fail

Lyon - obvious

I really have no idea what this has to do with what I said

 

[CricAddict]

Poor Lyon. It's takes a freaking 8-fer for him to get an edge bump in this poll. A couple of months from now, once forgotten, the same poll will have Jadeja 10 points up.

I am not getting into who is the better bowler. But it is not "Poor Lyon" at all. I don't remember any other poll where a 31 averaging bowler leads a 24 averaging bowler by so much. So the poll results may be right or wrong but Lyon is not getting victimized or something here.

And Lyon also got rated ahead of Jadeja in the spinner rankings two years ago. So, the 8-fer is not the major reason though it could have influenced a couple of voters.

 

[Spark]

Recency bias I feel, Jadeja is better in my opinion ..can be a Frontline spinner but also just hold up an end when Ashwin is doing his thing that's versatility so a team player ..Lyon seems to like being a lone wolf

Lyon hasn't exactly had Ben Hilfenhaus and Brad Williams trundling in from the other end though. If anything Lyon has had the "just hold up an end" job even more often.

 

[Sunil1z]

I am not getting into who is the better bowler. But it is not "Poor Lyon" at all. I don't remember any other poll where a 31 averaging bowler leads a 24 averaging bowler by so much. So the poll results may be right or wrong but Lyon is not getting victimized or something here.

And Lyon also got rated ahead of Jadeja in the spinner rankings two years ago. So, the 8-fer is not the major reason though it could have influenced a couple of voters.

Laxman recently comfortably beat both Yousuf / Jayawardene in the poll . So , no I have no problem if someone rates Lyon above Jadeja imo when Jadeja’s performance as a spinner away from home as spinner to similar to Labuschagne as a bat .

I can remember more match winning performance from Jadeja as a batsman overseas than bowler

 

[slippy888]

Lyon is heading towards greatness