*Official* Yorkshire CCC racism crisis thread

[Molehill]

Have you ever said "those people"? Did you go on a course?

I was being somewhat facetious regarding the course Vaughan went on in order to get himself back into a commentary box.

 

[Brook's side]

I was being somewhat facetious regarding the course Vaughan went on in order to get himself back into a commentary box.

Apologies. Hard to tell on this subject sometimes what's serious and what isn't!

e.g. am not sure whether Root is alleged to have said "those people" or whether it's a CW joke of sorts, or if he is so alleged what the context was etc why it's an issue.

It seemed that there was some kind of suggestion that Root has been racially abusing people, which is obviously a serious allegation.

 

[GIMH]

Apologies. Hard to tell on this subject sometimes what's serious and what isn't!

e.g. am not sure whether Root is alleged to have said "those people" or whether it's a CW joke of sorts, or if he is so alleged what the context was etc why it's an issue.

It seemed that there was some kind of suggestion that Root has been racially abusing people, which is obviously a serious allegation.

It’s a CW joke about Joe Root having questions to answer. I wouldn’t worry

 

[Ashes81]

The main question for Root to answer is was he aware of the general culture amongst the staff and players towards non white players.

It's virtually impossible to believe he was unaware of it even if he may not himself have used any derogatory language.

As for Vaughan, this is a desperate attempt to save his media career in England. It was pretty disappointing that he was still getting work in Australia in 2021.

Obviously the old maxim of innocent until proved guilty should apply but in most jobs you'd be suspended until the case was resolved.

Yorkshire won't be the only county were such a culture exists and it would be no surprise if the culture at some other counties is still highly toxic.

 

[social]

Rafiq can’t remember the day/opponent/result or type of game but can clearly remember the context and intent of Vaughan’s words and chose to suppress his feelings for a decade



I am no fan of Vaughan at all but good on him for defending himself against this crap

 

[Molehill]

Apologies. Hard to tell on this subject sometimes what's serious and what isn't!

e.g. am not sure whether Root is alleged to have said "those people" or whether it's a CW joke of sorts, or if he is so alleged what the context was etc why it's an issue.

It seemed that there was some kind of suggestion that Root has been racially abusing people, which is obviously a serious allegation.

I think Root is only being questioned by association and a few naughty Aussies on here it would seem.

There is no doubt there was a toxic culture at Yorkshire and it's great to see things being improved. However, Rafiq is clearly a complicated character and it's hard to know how much to believe.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Rafiq can’t remember the day/opponent/result or type of game but can clearly remember the context and intent of Vaughan’s words and chose to suppress his feelings for a decade



I am no fan of Vaughan at all but good on him for defending himself against this crap

I don't know anything about this story but this isn't hard to believe at all. People remember all kinds of specific **** without recalling what was going on in the background

 

[Brook's side]

I don't know anything about this story but this isn't hard to believe at all. People remember all kinds of specific **** without recalling what was going on in the background

Agree.

Rashid's inconsistencies though (in particular saying he'd never discussed it with Rafiq, then when contrary evidence was pointed out said he hadn't understood the question) and the incredible (UNPROVEN) suggestion that Rafiq has been blackmailing Rashid!!!!!!!!!! seems pretty concerning.

 

[Ashes81]

Rafiq can’t remember the day/opponent/result or type of game but can clearly remember the context and intent of Vaughan’s words and chose to suppress his feelings for a decade



I am no fan of Vaughan at all but good on him for defending himself against this crap

Well there's 2 choices here - Vaughan did say the comment but Rafiq can't remember exactly when or Vaughan never said it and Rafiq is making the whole thing up.

My money's on the former as its a hell of a thing to make up knowing the consequences for Vaughan.

 

[social]

I am older than most of you

“You lot” was a commonly used phrase back in the day & had no racist connotations without context

I have been in dressing rooms where “you lot” was used as has racism

The difference is palpable

Maybe Vaughan is guilty but maybe not

 

[Spikey]

It’s a CW joke about Joe Root having questions to answer. I wouldn’t worry

I'd be worried about the questions Joe Root has to answer though

 

[Burgey]

The main question for Root to answer is was he aware of the general culture amongst the staff and players towards non white players.

It's virtually impossible to believe he was unaware of it even if he may not himself have used any derogatory language.

the first question Joe Root has to answer is whether he’s racist or merely racist-adjacent.

the second is “David Warner was right about you, wasn’t he?”

 

[Ashes81]

the first question Joe Root has to answer is whether he’s racist or merely racist-adjacent.

the second is “David Warner was right about you, wasn’t he?”

None of us know whether Root is racist or not.

Rafiq nor anyone else has made any allegations against him so he's presumably not said anything he shouldn't have to non white players.

My issue with Root's conduct is that he's said that he's never heard anyone say anything racist in the dressing room etc.

I find that hard to believe, he spent alot of time in that environment and at the very least must have been aware of the general culture.

He either saw nothing wrong with that culture or didn't do anything/enough to challenge it.

As he became more senior within the dressing room, he had every opportunity to do that.

Most of us at sometime, either in a work or social environment have been present when unacceptable things have been said or done.

It's often seen as banter, as part of the dressing room/work culture and its a bit of harmless fun

It isn't harmless and it's certainly not fun for those on the receiving end of it and Root, like everyone else is complicit in it if he doesn't challenge such behaviour.

 

[Brook's side]

Mulcahy asks Vaughan about how long he played alongside former bowler Matthew Hoggard, both at Yorkshire and England. She asks Vaughan about certain years when they overlapped and he isn't sure of the exact dates.

Vaughan: "It's like Question of Sport, this."

 

[Molehill]

the first question Joe Root has to answer is whether he’s racist or merely racist-adjacent.

the second is “David Warner was right about you, wasn’t he?”

Would be a hell of a shot for this to be the first thing Warner was right about.

 

[Brook's side]

the first question Joe Root has to answer is whether he’s racist or merely racist-adjacent.

the second is “David Warner was right about you, wasn’t he?”

Have you ever known anyone who has done anything wrong?

Do you think it would be reasonable for people to publicly suggest that you have committed the same offence because you have known or worked with that person?

What would you think if someone you don't know came up to you and asked you if you were a ?????? or merely ?????-adjacent, on the basis of you having worked with someone who had committed a ?????? offence?

Would you think that they were being discriminatory?

 

[Burgey]

No I wouldn’t because if I was embedded for a decade as a poster boy and in a senior role in an organisation which behaved like Yorkshire has I’d expect to have questions to answer.

You’re acting like he was the laundry boy who walked past these blokes in the corridor. He was a senior pro and the national captain ffs. At worst he did nothing (and let’s face it there’s bugger all evidence he did a thing to put a stop to it) or he was just wilfully ignorant and didn’t GAF. Because if he says he never saw or heard evidence of it, he’s about the only bloke at the club who didn’t:

He has questions to answer.

basically what @Ashes81 said, in other words. Only I’d stick the knife in harder and twist it.

 

[zaremba]

Agree.

Rashid's inconsistencies though (in particular saying he'd never discussed it with Rafiq, then when contrary evidence was pointed out said he hadn't understood the question) and the incredible (UNPROVEN) suggestion that Rafiq has been blackmailing Rashid!!!!!!!!!! seems pretty concerning.

The allegation of blackmail is one used against Rashid's account (ie to suggest his support for Rafiq is not genuine). It's not his suggestion. He denied it.

 

[Brook's side]

The allegation of blackmail is one used against Rashid's account (ie to suggest his support for Rafiq is not genuine). It's not his suggestion. He denied it.

Yes I appreciate that.

 

[Brook's side]

So on Vaughan, these are my thoughts:

1. Probably he did say it
2. It was not intended to be offensive and was in fact - whilst misguided and crass - intended to be inclusionary and reflected his pleasure of seeing 4 players of asian descent in a Yorkshite side
3. Probably he has had no memory of it, but may now suspect himself that he said it
4. Probably anyone who heard it appreciated the way in which it was meant and did not take offence
5. That might be with the exception of Rafiq, who may have seen it as another example of the offensive and racist culture at Yorkshire
6. There is some dialogue on the matter between Rafiq and Rashid since which for some reason has likely been deliberately deleted

I'm not sure what form the tribunal's decision takes here. Are they going to say that he's 'guilty' or otherwise about saying the comment, or about whether the comment was objectively racist or whether he intended it to be racist?

Personally I think it's got all out of proportion. If anything, the bigger issue with Vaughan should be the terrorist tweet.
Seeing how BBC and cricket have a big drive on being inclusionary it's difficult to see how Vaughan can return to TMS if he has alienated a whole community which the BBC and cricket are trying to attract.
But I see no reason why he can't broadcast in Aus, SA, Ind even Pakistan. I think he should accept that and go down that route if he wants to continue to make a career from the game.
Maybe he could do some grass roots coaching in asian communities or something, in the UK or overseas.