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*Official* England in NZ 2023

A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
I didn't stay up all night to watch it but watched it this morning without knowing the result.

First up - congrats to NZ, that's some come back after following on. Should we have batted again, maybe but it easy in hindsight to say that.

I think for once in match ups between these 2 teams, NZ got the rub of the green. We had it in the WC final, today it went with NZ. The ball before Jimmy was dismissed was definitely a wide but you win some you lose some.

The injury to Stokes was crucial, he could hardly bat but Wagner did what Wagner does and after his 1st test mauling, that's a heck of a comeback.

Fair play to both sides, it was a fantastic game and produced one of the all time great matches.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Vice-Captain
trundler said:
Very much so. Came down the track to every ball and had no idea what to do with Blundell stepped up.
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Yeah he is truly awful to watch when he panics. Not the man you want in a nervy situation. The run out is obviously a farce and some questionable batting on the morning of the second day. What a loss. Southee’s 74 turned out to be vital.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
Pope was really poor today.

He was dancing down the pitch from his 1st ball and it was a bit of a concerning innings going
forward as he lacked any sort of composure.
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
BazBall21 said:
Yeah he is truly awful to watch when he panics. Not the man you want in a nervy situation. The run out is obviously a farce and some questionable batting on the morning of the second day. What a loss. Southee’s 74 turned out to be vital.
Click to expand...
It's a gutting loss in so far as for most of the series we've been much the better side.

NZ came back brilliantly but we should have finished the series off by batting again. The match may have trundled towards a bore draw but that's not the way we play now.

Being pragmatic, when you only need to draw the match, why give the opposition even the smallest sniff of a chance.

There won't be any criticism of the team or management and rightly so but it would be a different story if we did something similar in the Ashes and it cost us.

Going forward, the loss doesn't impact upon the team heading towards the Ashes. We're still in very good shape and with every chance of bring the little urn home.
 
theegyptian

theegyptian

International Vice-Captain
BazBall21 said:
Wasn’t watching but apparently Pope was all skittish. He was like that every innings in 2021.
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Pope is an anxious type player (and personality - by his own account) and it seems to especially come out later on in the game when he's under pressure. 43.66 avg (1st innings) vs 16.66 (2nd innings) is an issue. He puts me on edge just watching him bat.

Bazball has had good short term impact on his game but I wonder in the long term whether not really addressing some of his technical and mental shortcomings will limit his output - or whether this is as good is it gets with Pope. Hard to know obviously.

On a similar level I felt sorry for Crawley for a while because clearly his game and confidence were at rock bottom, and picking him was likely doing him more harm than good. However he's had less pressure on him of late and time to work on his game but he hasn't taken advantage of this and the same technical failings are still there.
 
Brook's side

Brook's side

International Regular
Ashes81 said:
Pope was really poor today.

He was dancing down the pitch from his 1st ball and it was a bit of a concerning innings going
forward as he lacked any sort of composure.
Click to expand...
Thought his dismissal was absolutely dire.

Would have been told to sling his hook in catching practise for making it unrealistically easy.
 
BazBall21

BazBall21

International Vice-Captain
theegyptian said:
Pope is an anxious type player (and personality - by his own account) and it seems to especially come out later on in the game when he's under pressure. 43.66 avg (1st innings) vs 16.66 (2nd innings) is an issue. He puts me on edge just watching him bat.

Bazball has had good short term impact on his game but I wonder in the long term whether not really addressing some of his technical and mental shortcomings will limit his output - or whether this is as good is it gets with Pope. Hard to know obviously.

On a similar level I felt sorry for Crawley for a while because clearly his game and confidence were at rock bottom, and picking him was likely doing him more harm than good. However he's had less pressure on him of late and time to work on his game but he hasn't taken advantage of this and the same technical failings are still there.
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“Puts me on edge watching him bat” nail on the head. It’s genuinely distressing sometimes.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Glad to see Pope getting some criticism here. He was woeful, never looked comfortable, a wicket waiting to happen. Starting to wonder if we might be better keeping Crawley and sticking Bairstow at 3...
 
A

Ashes81

State Vice-Captain
Crawley has to go, he's had plenty of chances but he simply hasn't got the defensive technique to open the batting.

He can look fantastic at times, he's got some gorgeous shots in the locker but he's not a test class opener.

Who should replace him is a different matter.
Obviously we want Bairstow back in the side but to do that means one of the current batsmen has to step up and there are no obvious candidates.

Pope is still yet to convince as a number 3, nevermind opening. Root was an opener at the start of his career but those days have long gone. Could Stokes do it - he's very defensively sound.

Personally, I'd be tempted to drop both Crawley and Pope. I'd bring Rory Burns back in, he didn't do a whole lot wrong and did well in the last home Ashes.

I'd then move Root to 3, Brook at 4, Bairstow at 5 and Stokes at 6.
 
C

Croadymeister

U19 Cricketer
Molehill said:
I'd go further than that. In Test history, 4 teams have lost when enforcing the follow on. No team has lost when setting a target of 450 plus (which is surely would have been here). It really was quite the gift from Stokes, and given how much time was left and the forecast was good, why on earth did he do it?
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Yeah 226 lead and yet we enforce follow on
 
C

Croadymeister

U19 Cricketer
Ashes81 said:
I didn't stay up all night to watch it but watched it this morning without knowing the result.

First up - congrats to NZ, that's some come back after following on. Should we have batted again, maybe but it easy in hindsight to say that.

I think for once in match ups between these 2 teams, NZ got the rub of the green. We had it in the WC final, today it went with NZ. The ball before Jimmy was dismissed was definitely a wide but you win some you lose some.

The injury to Stokes was crucial, he could hardly bat but Wagner did what Wagner does and after his 1st test mauling, that's a heck of a comeback.

Fair play to both sides, it was a fantastic game and produced one of the all time great matches.
Click to expand...
Wasn't so much hindsight from me as said we shouldn't enforce follow on before NZ batted again because have a bad feeling about them
 
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