*Official* England in NZ 2023

[Prince EWS]

Only problem with this test was the timezone really. Would've loved to watch more of it . Caught the last 15 overs atleast.

I watched pretty much every ball *except* the last 15 overs and I think I'd trade you tbh.

 

[jcas0167]

Nice piece by Dylan Cleaver who pulls out an interesting stat: sides that enforce the follow on win 79% of the time while those that have the opportunity to but don't enforce it win 85% of the time.

Notes from SH32 (via the Basin)

Final thoughts from a game that should be immediately moved down the road and preserved at Te Papa.

dylancleaver.substack.com

 

[trundler]

I watched pretty much every ball *except* the last 15 overs and I think I'd trade you tbh.

Haha yeah I made the call to stay up for the first session, which was pretty great tbf, but I definitely should've woken up early to watch the last hour instead.

 

[Starfighter]

Nice piece by Dylan Cleaver who pulls out an interesting stat: sides that enforce the follow on win 79% of the time while those that have the opportunity to but don't enforce it win 85% of the time.

Notes from SH32 (via the Basin)

Final thoughts from a game that should be immediately moved down the road and preserved at Te Papa.

dylancleaver.substack.com

Charles Davis did calculations on the follow-on quite a few years ago. Basically batting again is better up to the end of day 3. In the matches he used the only loss was... Calcutta 2001, with the follow-on enforced.

 

[Molehill]

Nice piece by Dylan Cleaver who pulls out an interesting stat: sides that enforce the follow on win 79% of the time while those that have the opportunity to but don't enforce it win 85% of the time.

Notes from SH32 (via the Basin)

Final thoughts from a game that should be immediately moved down the road and preserved at Te Papa.

dylancleaver.substack.com

I'd go further than that. In Test history, 4 teams have lost when enforcing the follow on. No team has lost when setting a target of 450 plus (which is surely would have been here). It really was quite the gift from Stokes, and given how much time was left and the forecast was good, why on earth did he do it?

 

[Prince EWS]

Haha yeah I made the call to stay up for the first session, which was pretty great tbf, but I definitely should've woken up early to watch the last hour instead.

I actually meant the whole Test too, not just the last day. I probably have close to the most in-play posts in this thread.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah it seemed like one ridiculous test where almost every wicket fell to a bouncer, but then Wagner did it to Australia too and it became legit

Actually I just went back over that test and Chameera did it first, in the second innings of the game. We then copied them in the third innings after we couldn’t take early wickets, and rolled them. Chameera took another bag in the chase but we won. Wagner only took 4 wickets for the match while Chameera took 9. So Chameera actually invented Wagnerball.

 

[Gnske]

I feel like Chameera had a fair few deliveries outside the 0.15m mark. So I'm taking his work with a grain of salt there. There's no doubt umpiring has improved since he was around.

 

[Spark]

I'd go further than that. In Test history, 4 teams have lost when enforcing the follow on. No team has lost when setting a target of 450 plus (which is surely would have been here). It really was quite the gift from Stokes, and given how much time was left and the forecast was good, why on earth did he do it?

From what was coming out of the England camp on Day 3, simply because they wanted to win quicker.

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Yeah I remember that game because I posted that our batsmen were Bulbasaurs.

 

[silentstriker]

Charles Davis did calculations on the follow-on quite a few years ago. Basically batting again is better up to the end of day 3. In the matches he used the only loss was... Calcutta 2001, with the follow-on enforced.

Well given there have been so few losses after being able to or actually enforcing the follow on, you can’t count that. It’s about reducing chance of draw right?

 

[Starfighter]

Well given there have been so few losses after being able to or actually enforcing the follow on, you can’t count that. It’s about reducing chance of draw right?

Maybe you should read the rest of the comment.

 

[Starfighter]

From what was coming out of the England camp on Day 3, simply because they wanted to win quicker.

I think it fits in with the idea of ultra-positive cricket. Enforcing the follow on is seen as the more attacking option and people will accuse you of not 'going for the throat' if you don't take it. I think few people remember (or even know these days) that test matches used to have a rest day which definitely made it a more viable option as bowler fatigue was less significant.

Also, with respect to the weather, I don't remember it being a mentioned at the time. But, though it's hard for me to judge as I've been a weather nerd since I was about eight years old, I think cricket in general has a very unsophisticated. Forecasts aren't always clear or reliable, but there must have been something, somewhere showing the chance of rain was decreasing throughout the match.

Though that doesn't beat the worst weather judgement I've seen, when NZ elected to bowl at Manuka 'in case the rain (and DLS) came into it' when you could see a sharp clearance on the radar with nothing following. Got to witness Henry taking a humiliating pounding as Australia scored 378 and the most glorious sunset I've ever seen.

 

[BazBall21]

Happy for Flem 274* even if he did write his hero off

 

[Molehill]

I think it fits in with the idea of ultra-positive cricket. Enforcing the follow on is seen as the more attacking option. I think few people remember (or even know these days) that test matches used to have a rest day which definitely made it a more viable option as bowler fatigue was less significant.

Indeed, one of those victories after the follow on included a barbecue and piss up round Botham's house on the rest day.

 

[Flem274*]

McCullum used to enforce the follow on all the time. We're bloody lucky the trio survived all those back to back bowling innings.

 

[Bahnz]

McCullum used to enforce the follow on all the time. We're bloody lucky the trio survived all those back to back bowling innings.

Tbf, on the occasions he didn’t enforce the follow-on, NZ had a tendency to collapse in a heap (v England 2013, India 2014, WI 2014) so he probably figured enforcing it was the high percentage option with his still shaky batting lineup.

 

[Spark]

I think it fits in with the idea of ultra-positive cricket. Enforcing the follow on is seen as the more attacking option and people will accuse you of not 'going for the throat' if you don't take it. I think few people remember (or even know these days) that test matches used to have a rest day which definitely made it a more viable option as bowler fatigue was less significant.

Also, with respect to the weather, I don't remember it being a mentioned at the time. But, though it's hard for me to judge as I've been a weather nerd since I was about eight years old, I think cricket in general has a very unsophisticated. Forecasts aren't always clear or reliable, but there must have been something, somewhere showing the chance of rain was decreasing throughout the match.

Though that doesn't beat the worst weather judgement I've seen, when NZ elected to bowl at Manuka 'in case the rain (and DLS) came into it' when you could see a sharp clearance on the radar with nothing following. Got to witness Henry taking a humiliating pounding as Australia scored 378 and the most glorious sunset I've ever seen.

Cricket struggles to barely even account for a massive storm on the radar barrelling straight for the ground and clearly slated to hit in two hours (witness the farce that was this year's Sydney Test), let alone trying to figure out the weather in two days' time. It seems that, as with many things in cricket, administrators haven't realised it isn't 1970 any more and weather forecasts are genuinely quite reliable 72 hours out.

 

[ashley bach]

Root now averages above 50 in seven different countries. Wagner’s last hurrah or earned himself the SL series minimum?

There's no question that he'll play if he wants to, but the real question is should he want to?
Reckon there's many good reasons to leave on a high, rather than finish off with 2 tests against SL.
Hopefully he does whats best for him, either way he'll be dining out on today's result for some time.

 

[BazBall21]

Wasn’t watching but apparently Pope was all skittish. He was like that every innings in 2021.