CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
@subshakerz I am trying to have a reasonable conversation with you here, even giving you the leeway to choose your own timeframe. Please don't change it to a word combat again.
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Which team is currently the best, in 2023?
- Thread starter ataraxia
- Start date
But how are Eng or Aus ahead? They haven’t done anything Ind hasn’t in this timeframe? I would say it’s too early to call on current form. However over the last 5 years, its Ind easily.
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, again fair though given England won 6 out of 7 games against 3 of the 4 best equipped teams to succeed in English conditions - and if anything look to have improved since then - I think they’ve shown that they’re now a very different beast to the side that randomly dropped tests to WI and SL in years past. Like I said in my first post, India squeak it for me atm, but it’s all very finger in the wind stuff until we get proper series between these sides, and England are certainly looking damn easy on the eye, not only in terms of the bazball, but also the sudden wealth of resources. They’re running rings around a side that hasn’t lost at home in 6 years whilst Bairstow, Wood, Curran, Archer, Buttler etc are cooling their heels.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
Ha ha good one. Go with it as a 2-1 series win for India in England plus a one-off test or a drawn series for India in England. Cannot have it both ways.These two include the same match but considered as a draw for one and a victory for the other.
And India's win in Bang was away.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
We agreed that the timeframe for India would start from the England draw.These two include the same match but considered as a draw for one and a victory for the other.
And India's win in Bang was away.
anil1405
International Captain
Dude, he is trying to compare any time frame you've given to the bazball time frame.
He himself decided that the timeframe for England should be since Stokes/McCullum took over.
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
Yes, this is the absolute point I have been trying to make to him for 30 pages or so, but he hasn't been listening. It is too early to call England as the better team on current form. They still need to do a lot more.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Why not just say this from the beginning?
As if Test nations haven't ever been substandard when there were dominant runs in history. Shall we dismiss every great team before for getting to statpad against noobs relative to them? Especially when at home? This is just reaching for straws to be honest as criticism goes.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Does this count for Rohit's India?
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
I have made this point also earlier. The crux of the team or the playing style has not changed at all. It has been as stable now as it has been for the past 5 years under Kohli. England's bazball is like a new flourishing start-up against a giant like Microsoft or Amazon. So, it won't count for India but only for England who are doing better relatively only recently.
That was in my first post literally dude
CricAddict
Cricketer Of The Year
Let me give you an example. When Ponting took over from Steve Waugh, will you suddenly rate South Africa under Cronje better because Ponting's Australia is a new team even though Warne, Mcgrath, Gilly etc remain in the team?
The real reason everyone here seems to have basically missed is that India actually have a great and varied bowling attack with both pace and spin being deadly (best bowling attack home & away since 2015). When non subcontinental teams filled with pacers but no good spinners come, pitches favour spin while Indian pacers get to abuse their experience better than the opposition. When subcontinental teams come the pitches favour the Indian pacers since their opponents have no good pace bowlers. How do you beat that? All this nonsense about batting fast is besides the point if your bowlers can't do **** anyway.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
But that was years ago
Bahnz
Hall of Fame Member
I just think if you look at cricketing nations, throughout recent history we’ve had rival countries who tend to go well in each other’s conditions. For Australia that was historically WI and more recently SA. For England it’s SA and more recently NZ. For India it was historically Pakistan but due to politics that door has been closed, and as admirable a side as SL had c 2004-2014 they never quite got out of middle-weight status, and obviously since then have dropped off a cliff. So India has no one from that same school of SC cricket to really offer a challenge in the way that Aus and England do. Again, I don’t think it on the whole should detract from India’s incredible home record, even setting the lack of a significant rival aside they’ve definitely shown greater consistency than Australia (losing to India) and England (losing to everyone) over that time.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ok we are making progress.
No, I wouldn't rate them lower. So hear me out.
India had a strong year in 2021. They won in Australia, they were winning the series in England, and they had won the first test in SA by the end of the year.
However, 2022 they lost the series in SA and the last test in England. They continue to remain super strong at home. I argue that the recent form away is relevant from 2022 onwards as most recent, hence on current form I don't them that highly. To me, Rohit inherited a team that was dipping in away form.
Now, you might argue that 2021 is still relevant, and we can have that discussion.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
When can it become clear though? To me, if England win this NZ series and then beat Australia in the Ashes that is almost enough to be crowned no.1
Alternatively, if Australia can salvage some pride in this series, win the WTC, and win the Ashes, should be enough to be no.1
For India, a clean sweep in this series and WTC victory should be enough for no.1, though it becomes more debatable if England win the Ashes.
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When WI ruled there were quite a few **** sides basically carried by a couple of players, same goes for Australia. SA only began winning in AUS once McGrath and Warne left and even then were being beaten at home by AUS until 2018, and the others never really had that level of bowling attack for a decent amount of time. Pitch preparations then also weren't helpful in that regard for quite a few nations.
Sometimes that's how it is in sports, but I don't think this decline, which I think is still a bit of an overstatement, is that meaningful as far as discussing India at home recently goes. Teams travelling have almost always had deficiencies in their bowling attack due to conditions, and part of why we rate teams that win away highly is because generally that gap is extremely hard to overcome.