Which team is currently the best, in 2023?

[PaulLennon]

My point has always been that India's inability to win in Eng/NZ/SA keeps them from no.1 status.

England, we are judging Stokes team, not Roots.

I have been consistent, unlike you contortionists.

And England's inability to win in Ind/WI/Aus/Bang keep them from no 1 status

Ind, we are judging Rohit's team not Rahul's

 

[PaulLennon]

Didn't address the argument about the nature of the victory.

No, this Stokes team would crush WI home and away. History makes no difference to them. I don't think you actually believe that WI stand a chance, you are just saying this for the arguments sake.


We can speculate if those openers would have made a difference, but the point again which you ignore if that you said there is 'no indication' that's Stokes can beat India at home. A test victory is a pretty obvious indication so that is untrue.


Cas the same Indian side was whitewashed in NZ and the middle order is in even worse shape now. England, on the other hand, weren't even fully fit with Anderson in WI last time, and are a very different side under Stokes which you like to ignore.



Once again, irrelevant since we are talking CURRENT teams, hence evaluating Stokes run. Judging Stokes by Roots' losses is silly and shows you are either not aware enough to see a difference in quality of leadership or deliberately obscuring things to prop India up.

Your fundamental problem is you don't want to give Stokes' side credit because it makes India look bad to you.

No, this Stokes team would crush WI home and away. History makes no difference to them. I don't think you actually believe that WI stand a chance, you are just saying this for the arguments sake. - Yeah, something that KP, Anderson, Cook, Trott, Swann, Root, Broad etc have never achieved.

We can speculate if those openers would have made a difference, but the point again which you ignore if that you said there is 'no indication' that's Stokes can beat India at home. A test victory is a pretty obvious indication so that is untrue. - A one-off test victory is no indication for an entire series considering they were 1-2 a year ago with same personnel and even in the first test, conceded a lead.

Cas the same Indian side was whitewashed in NZ and the middle order is in even worse shape now. England, on the other hand, weren't even fully fit with Anderson in WI last time, and are a very different side under Stokes which you like to ignore. - Cause the same England side lost in WI last time and the time before that as well and Anderson was present. India, on the other hand were not even fully fit with Bumrah and Ishant last time in NZ, and are a very different side under Rohit with the introduction of Siraj, Gill etc which you like to ignore.

Your fundamental problem is you don't want to give Stokes' side credit because it makes India look bad to you. - Your fundamental problem is to make India look bad you are overrating Stoke's side whose run is way less impressive than India's 2015-17 run.

The fact that the Pakistan cricket team is finished just like the hockey team before it as well as the economy seems to really have done a number on you. Stoke's team has managed some home wins and away wins against a horrible minnow-level Pakistan team and a declining NZ.

 

[PaulLennon]

Please reread all your posts and tell me where you mention Indian weaknesses.

The one where I noted the losses to NZ and SA?

 

[subshakerz]

This really reinforced my view that people are kind of answering two different questions here.

For some, like subshakerz, "which team is currently the best?" really is just hypothetical thinking in our own minds - because that's what the nature of the question is. Results from 2019 or whatever are basically irrelevant as to which team is the best now. It's a hypothetical thought experiment question by its very nature.

For others, like you, it's something that has to be earned and proven over long-term results.

I think you disagree more over what the question is really asking than what the answers should be.

Yes agreed. I am focusing on the current aspect which is more speculative of how teams would do today in hypothetical matchups, and past is only tangentially informative. As you mention tho, that is the nature of the question of this thread, which I try to remind others.

 

[CricAddict]

Yes agreed. I am focusing on the current aspect which is more speculative of how teams would do today in hypothetical matchups, and past is only tangentially informative. As you mention tho, that is the nature of the question of this thread, which I try to remind others.

What we are reminding you is that hypotheticals don't always work out in real life. Current best team is based on results they've churned out in recent past, which you are not abled to grasp or learn.

 

[anil1405]

Yes agreed. I am focusing on the current aspect which is more speculative of how teams would do today in hypothetical matchups, and past is only tangentially informative. As you mention tho, that is the nature of the question of this thread, which I try to remind others.

The fundamental flaw in your hypothetical fantasy land is that you would never have predicted an Indian win in Australia in 20-21 or given India a chance of winning two tests on their last tour of Eng, while predicting an easy win for Eng in WI in their previous tour etc.

 

[Prince EWS]

The fundamental flaw in your hypothetical fantasy land is that you would never have predicted an Indian win in Australia in 20-21 or given India a chance of winning two tests on their last tour of Eng, while predicting an easy win for Eng in WI in their previous tour etc.

People can be wrong about hypothetical matchups. That's the fun in discussing them. Objective measures need no discussion.

 

[anil1405]

People can be wrong about hypothetical matchups. That's the fun in discussing them. Objective measures need no discussion.

Absolutely. People can be wrong in their predictions and people are also allowed to change their mind and votes. My point is primarily about how subz loves to push his opinion on others vividly and tends to write India off at every given opportunity and take the fun out of it.

 

[ataraxia]

The obsession with series wins here is yuck. Results are pretty random really (edit: as in they have high level of variation).

 

[subshakerz]

What we are reminding you is that hypotheticals don't always work out in real life. Current best team is based on results they've churned out in recent past, which you are not abled to grasp or learn.

Don't fault me that is the nature of this thread. You are criticizing me for hypotheticals in a thread made for that.

 

[Prince EWS]

The obsession with series wins here is yuck. Results are pretty random really.

Yeah winning is for losers.

Having a good team on paper that people think should win is where it's at.

 

[subshakerz]

The fundamental flaw in your hypothetical fantasy land is that you would never have predicted an Indian win in Australia in 20-21 or given India a chance of winning two tests on their last tour of Eng, while predicting an easy win for Eng in WI in their previous tour etc.

Nobody would predict BG2021, that doesn't mean that all speculation is groundless.

 

[subshakerz]

Absolutely. People can be wrong in their predictions and people are also allowed to change their mind and votes. My point is primarily about how subz loves to push his opinion on others vividly and tends to write India off at every given opportunity and take the fun out of it.

I am not biased against India tho the attitude of posters here kinda makes me wish I was.

 

[CricAddict]

Don't fault me that is the nature of this thread. You are criticizing me for hypotheticals in a thread made for that.

Ha ha. Now you've taken to nature of the thread as an excuse once PEWS has brought up that point.

 

[ataraxia]

Yeah winning is for losers.

Having a good team on paper that people think should win is where it's at.

shut it

Really the thing is IMO that recently all 3 teams have done very well (Aus touring Ind without top players get smashed wow so horrible must be a **** team)

 

[ZK$]

Subshakerz is only biased against Kallis and Jadeja.

 

[Socerer 01]

This really reinforced my view that people are kind of answering two different questions here.

For some, like subshakerz, "which team is currently the best?" really is just hypothetical thinking in our own minds - because that's what the nature of the question is. Results from 2019 or whatever are basically irrelevant as to which team is the best now. It's a hypothetical thought experiment question by its very nature.

For others, like you, it's something that has to be earned and proven over long-term results.

I think you disagree more over what the question is really asking than what the answers should be.

except for all the parts where Subs is clearly using previous history to diss on India’s hypothetical chances while saying that it doesn’t matter for other competitors. wonder why his own logic is so inconsistent when it comes to India alone

 

[Prince EWS]

shut it

Really the thing is IMO that recently all 3 teams have done very well (Aus touring Ind without top players get smashed wow so horrible must be a **** team)

They couldn't even beat India at home lol. I'm really not sure why they're rated at all. They're not **** - they're never any worse than kind of mid-tier - but I was surprised to learn that anyone thought they were in India's league at all.

England are harder to rate properly because they've changed so rapidly.

 

[ataraxia]

Anyway I thought this might be an interesting thread on what people think might be the best out of the three teams at this very instant (ignoring short-term injuries), because all three teams are very close in quality IMO. But it has devolved into a CWian festival of horrors: the worst permutation of an anal-ysis by checklist combined with nationalistic ****fighting (tbf only from Indian posters). So haha bye bye i guess

(re PEWS: I'm of the opinion that that was a fluke – a very enjoyable one though unlike ebaGOAT's. But I do think I was too overly swayed by Aus' amazeballs home summer just gone.)

 

[subshakerz]

Ha ha. Now you've taken to nature of the thread as an excuse once PEWS has brought up that point.

Just do the right thing and apologize that you completely misread the point of this thread and we should be cool dude