The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[CricketFan90s]

But i have my doubts regarding Pakistan Batting as it will be tough for them to handle Steyn, Donald and Pollock all 3 at once. Steyn's outswingers, Donald's inswingers and speed, Pollock line and length.

 

[Victor Ian]

You should not look simply at an Avg and come to a conclusion.
Tayfield was an offspinner but Saqlain was an Offspinner who can bowl Doosra
Mushtaq clearly better than Kallis (at one point of time he was compared to Warne and Kallis never was)
Steyn, Donald, Pollock vs Wasim, Waqar and Imran is clash of the titans
Its a pretty even contest which can go either way based on pitch conditions.

I guess you are picking the Pakistan bowlers based on peak performances. That is fine. But have you looked at the South Africans peak performances to compare. I think they will probably peak out better.

While Mushtaq is a better bowler than Kallis seems academic, that is because he was a bowler. If you put him in your side as the fifth bowler, his output will be heavily curtailed and he will end up much closer to Kallis than you think. Or, will you make Imran your fifth bowler. Whoever bowls those fifth bowler overs will not have the regular wicket output their career suggests.

 

[Bolo.]

That Pak vs Rsa bowling matchup is pretty close, but you are giving Pak an extra specialist bowler- Kallis plays as a specialist bat even if not bowling, while Mustaq is a tailender. Throw in an extra bowler or AR in for Rsa and they are well ahead.

I think the RSA lineup edges it anyway. Tayfield can bowl an absolutely stupid amount of overs if needs be, and they don't need to bowl the weak link Kallis much at all, but you often need a lot of overs out of the Pak spinners, who are both weak links.

 

[CricketFan90s]

I guess you are picking the Pakistan bowlers based on peak performances. That is fine. But have you looked at the South Africans peak performances to compare. I think they will probably peak out better.

While Mushtaq is a better bowler than Kallis seems academic, that is because he was a bowler. If you put him in your side as the fifth bowler, his output will be heavily curtailed and he will end up much closer to Kallis than you think. Or, will you make Imran your fifth bowler. Whoever bowls those fifth bowler overs will not have the regular wicket output their career suggests.

Kallis bowled 12.40 Overs per innings and Mushtaq bowled 23.47 Overs per innings. So Kallis can only be treated as a part time bowler and Mushtaq a full fledged Spinner.

 

[srbhkshk]

I guess you are picking the Pakistan bowlers based on peak performances. That is fine. But have you looked at the South Africans peak performances to compare. I think they will probably peak out better.

Nah tbh, if there is one thing Pakistani bowlers do well - it's managing a stupid ridiculous peak.

 

[Victor Ian]

But i have my doubts regarding Pakistan Batting as it will be tough for them to handle Steyn, Donald and Pollock all 3 at once. Steyn's outswingers, Donald's inswingers and speed, Pollock line and length.

That is about the crux of it. That Pakistan attack has all the tools to be lethal. But there are teams which are far superior in the batting to compensate. The only games that Pakistan win against the big teams are when the stars align. For every collapse the Pakistan bowlers effect, they will suffer a return collapse, and then some.

 

[CricketFan90s]

That Pak vs Rsa bowling matchup is pretty close, but you are giving Pak an extra specialist bowler- Kallis plays as a specialist bat even if not bowling, while Mustaq is a tailender. Throw in an extra bowler or AR in for Rsa and they are well ahead.

I think the RSA lineup edges it anyway. Tayfield can bowl an absolutely stupid amount of overs if needs be, and they don't need to bowl the weak link Kallis much at all, but you often need a lot of overs out of the Pak spinners, who are both weak links.

RSA is a better team due to Stronger Batting lineup and better fielders.

 

[CricketFan90s]

That is about the crux of it. That Pakistan attack has all the tools to be lethal. But there are teams which are far superior in the batting to compensate. The only games that Pakistan win against the big teams are when the stars align. For every collapse the Pakistan bowlers effect, they will suffer a return collapse, and then some.

Hehehe ?

 

[Victor Ian]

That Pak vs Rsa bowling matchup is pretty close, but you are giving Pak an extra specialist bowler- Kallis plays as a specialist bat even if not bowling, while Mustaq is a tailender. Throw in an extra bowler or AR in for Rsa and they are well ahead.

I think the RSA lineup edges it anyway. Tayfield can bowl an absolutely stupid amount of overs if needs be, and they don't need to bowl the weak link Kallis much at all, but you often need a lot of overs out of the Pak spinners, who are both weak links.

isnt that sean pollock? he kind of nullifies (almost) Imran. Kallis is just foot-on-the throat kind of stuff.

 

[CricketFan90s]

I also had a doubt who is better among Mohammad Yousuf and Inzamam ?

 

[trundler]

If you don't know that, you shouldn't be making ATG XIs

 

[CricketFan90s]

If you don't know that, you shouldn't be making ATG XIs

I know it don’t come to stupid conclusions

 

[CricketFan90s]

If you don't know that, you shouldn't be making ATG XIs

Do you know ? and can you explain why ?

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

England’s ATG Xi is Stronger than Pakistan.
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Hammond
Root
Pietersen
Knott+
Larwood
Trueman
Anderson
Barnes

 

[trundler]

Do you know ? and can you explain why ?

This knowledge must come from within. You must realise it yourself. Personally, it was revealed to me in a dream.

 

[CricketFan90s]

This knowledge must come from within. You must realise it yourself. Personally, it was revealed to me in a dream.

This is called making a statement and unable to prove the credibility of the statement ?

 

[Bolo.]

isnt that sean pollock? he kind of nullifies (almost) Imran. Kallis is just foot-on-the throat kind of stuff.

Pollock is good in the dead overs at controlling the runrate, and waiting for a time when the ball is dong something, but he can't bowl that many overs/boost your overrate, and you want him fresh as well.

 

[CricketFan90s]

England’s ATG Xi is Stronger than Pakistan.
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Hammond
Root
Pietersen
Knott+
Larwood
Trueman
Anderson
Barnes

My England XI : 1) Gooch* 2) Cook 3) Hammond 4) Pietersen 5) Root 6) Botham 7) Knott+ 8) Flintoff 9) Underwood 10) Trueman 11) Anderson. England XI will definitely have a Great All time XI as they played Tests from 1877. They became truly an Average side from 1989 Ashes before that they were among the best teams.

 

[Line and Length]

My England XI : 1) Gooch* 2) Cook 3) Hammond 4) Pietersen 5) Root 6) Stokes 7) Botham 8) Knott+ 9) Underwood 10) Trueman 11) Anderson

Are you ignoring Hobbs, Hutton and Sutcliffe so that you can claim your PakXI is stronger?

 

[srbhkshk]

My England XI : 1) Gooch* 2) Cook 3) Hammond 4) Pietersen 5) Root 6) Stokes 7) Botham 8) Knott+ 9) Underwood 10) Trueman 11) Anderson

This would make some kind of sense if you didn't pick Hammond, but picking him just makes this side beyond stupid.