Is Jadeja an ATG test cricketer?

[CricAddict]

I was comparing Ashwin and Jadeja to Warne and Murali in that post. I cited Kumble because doing the marathon spell thing is the pretty much limit of what finger spinners can consistently achieve on most overseas tracks that dont turn much. Warne/Murali can be a threat on a much wider variety of pitches.

Agreed. There is no comparing Ashwin or Jadeja to Warne or Murali. They are the top two spinners of all time.

 

[honestbharani]

Let's agree to be disagreeable then.

I think you have agreed to it since the day you signed up.

 

[subshakerz]

I think you have agreed to it since the day you signed up.

I thought you agreed to ignore my posts?

 

[Senile Sentry]

Agreed. There is no comparing Ashwin or Jadeja to Warne or Murali. They are the top two spinners of all time.

Ashwin is probably up there given his bag of wickets, which would surely have been higher but for Jadeja coming in and sharing those!

As I said earlier, Jadeja has played all his home tests with Ashwin.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Gotta say Ashwin hasn't been given the kind of opportunities that for eg. Kumble got to bloom into a more effective bowler overseas. Still think he's generally too impatient to consistently bag large hauls on unhelpful wickets but who knows if that might've changed with age

 

[subshakerz]

Gotta say Ashwin hasn't been given the kind of opportunities that for eg. Kumble got to bloom into a more effective bowler overseas. Still think he's generally too impatient to consistently bag large hauls on unhelpful wickets but who knows if that might've changed with age

Ashwin had consistently blown genuine opportunities to win away games that most worldclass spinners would have done.

Wanderers 2013 - Failed to even take a wicket in the fourth innings and helped allow SA to nearly chase a world record score

Centurion 2018 - 4th day, pitch worn out, prime conditions for a spinner yet Ashwin failed again to make an impact and SA posted a comfortable score

Southampton 2018 - Again, prime conditions on the 4th day, Ashwin fails to make an impact as England post a winning score

Wanders and Newlands 2022 - Zero impact in the 4th innings two tests in a row

The above by the way wouldn't be an issue if he had secured games otherwise.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yeah agreed mostly, especially the recent series in SA. Like I said, he has a tendency to get too funky on unhelpful overseas pitches. Is that a product of insecurity arising from the fact that his spot abroad isn't guaranteed and therefore he has to do more in a short span? I don't know. You never see him get carried away like that during long spells at home.

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble took 141 wickets in 35 tests in SENA. Ashwin took 70 wickets in 24 tests. Jadeja took 48 wickets in 19 tests.

Yes, Ashwin/Jadeja may have had more competition with pacers but I still think the above shows how Kumble was a different level of away performer compared to the other two who were often passengers.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah agreed mostly, especially the recent series in SA. Like I said, he has a tendency to get too funky on unhelpful overseas pitches. Is that a product of insecurity arising from the fact that his spot abroad isn't guaranteed and therefore he has to do more in a short span? I don't know. You never see him get carried away like that during long spells at home.

Yeah I think it is partly mental and insecurity. Certainly not a lack of skill.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Ashwin tends to overanalyze and overthink in fact in the last BGT in Aus, It was a mouthwatering match up between two overthinkers Smith and Ashwin. The over-overthinker lost out to the lesser one in the end.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Kumble took 141 wickets in 35 tests in SENA. Ashwin took 70 wickets in 24 tests. Jadeja took 48 wickets in 19 tests.

Yes, Ashwin/Jadeja may have had more competition with pacers but I still think the above shows how Kumble was a different level of away performer compared to the other two who were often passengers.

Kumble was pretty one a one man army overseas. Eventually they all have to get out to someone and Kumble used to pretty much book one end so it's no miracle that he ended up bagging on all those wickets. The average obviously is high as well (although reduced by the cheaper wickets of lower order and tail).

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble was pretty one a one man army overseas. Eventually they all have to get out to someone and Kumble used to pretty much book one end so it's no miracle that he ended up bagging on all those wickets. The average obviously is high as well (although reduced by the cheaper wickets of lower order and tail).

I agree that Kumble bowled a lot but it is still quite a stark difference.

And it was not inevitable that Kumble will take wickets away just by bowling from one end.

When Kumble played in England and Australia in the nineties he did took barely any wickets.

But he dramatically improved in the 2000s, taking 28 wickets in 6 tests in England and 44 wickets in 7 tests in Australia.

So he deserves credit for being an actual primary wicket-taking option in these conditions, unlike the others.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Yeah, Kumble's overseas numbers post-2000 are somewhat misleading. He rarely troubled batsmen abroad. The wickets were mostly a byproduct of marathon spells and flat pitches neutralizing journeymen seamers (except Zaheer I suppose). Serviceable performances undoubtedly but he was never a "threat" threat.

 

[Shri]

I agree that Kumble bowled a lot but it is still quite a stark difference.

And it was not inevitable that Kumble will take wickets away just by bowling from one end.

When Kumble played in England and Australia in the nineties he did took barely any wickets.

But he dramatically improved in the 2000s, taking 28 wickets in 6 tests in England and 44 wickets in 7 tests in Australia.

So he deserves credit for being an actual primary wicket-taking option in these conditions, unlike the others.

he got better after about a decade of experience playing in tose countries without getting dropped in his 30s. ashwin never had that luxury

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, Kumble's overseas numbers post-2000 are somewhat misleading. He rarely troubled batsmen abroad. The wickets were mostly a byproduct of marathon spells and flat pitches neutralizing journeymen seamers (except Zaheer I suppose). Serviceable performances undoubtedly but he was never a "threat" threat.

I will take a serviceable performance over a non-performance though since that it who he is being compared with, not Warne/Murali.

But he still had some key spells in the England victories and of course the Sydney test performance.

 

[subshakerz]

he got better after about a decade of experience playing in tose countries without getting dropped in his 30s. ashwin never had that luxury

Ashwin got better in Australia by his fourth tour there. However, he had three tours to SA and didn't improve.

 

[Shri]

Ashwin got better in Australia by his fourth tour there. However, he had three tours to SA and didn't improve.

in south africa the indian bowlers collectively **** the bed and no one does anything in those instances. when someone fires up we usually win. cannot put the blame on his shoulders

 

[subshakerz]

in south africa the indian bowlers collectively **** the bed and no one does anything in those instances. when someone fires up we usually win. cannot put the blame on his shoulders

He doesn't have sole blame, but partial blame definitely.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The Southampton and Centurion 2018 ones were definitely Ashwin's worst moments.

I think the blame he's taken for the recent SA is a bit much though. Maharaj took 1 wicket all series for 119 runs. Let's be real, those decks were designed to neuter any kind of spin and assist only pace and bounce and nothing else. India's pace bowlers were ****ing pathetic. He's way down on the ladder of shame for that series.

 

[anil1405]

On a side note, a more supportive skipper and Ash-Jaddu would've felt more comfortable and potentially performed even better.