Is Jadeja an ATG test cricketer?

[Senile Sentry]

You think he did better than Ashwin in 2021?

They performed different roles sp a comparison is difficult honestly. Ashwin was very good in the beginning with his bowling at Adelaide and then first innings of MCG. But then his bowling form kind of tapered away with modest returns in the 2nd innings and then at SCG where he struggled (perhaps due to his injury).

 

[subshakerz]

They performed different roles sp a comparison is difficult honestly. Ashwin was very good in the beginning with his bowling at Adelaide and then first innings of MCG. But then his bowling form kind of tapered away with modest returns in the 2nd innings and then at SCG where he struggled (perhaps due to his injury).

Yeah they did perform different roles but I thought Ashwin's was more impressive overall.

 

[CricAddict]

Both are just as good, very little between them.

As a bowler or as a cricketer?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yeah they did perform different roles but I thought Ashwin's was more impressive overall.

That’s great. The other guy was actually effective and took wickets.
Someone bring up that variations meme again.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The other guy was actually effective and took wickets.

Yeah because Ashwin wasn't effective at the MCG. Wtf is this post. Saying Ashwin was more effective than Jadeja in the Australia shouldn't be a hot take. They were both great and vital for the series win, but I do think Ashwin got the more important wickets.

 

[CricAddict]

Yeah because Ashwin wasn't effective at the MCG. Wtf is this post

He is not saying that Ashwin was not effective. subz is saying that Jadeja was ineffective which he is contesting. Both Ashwin and Jadeja have been very good in Australia in recent times.

 

[subshakerz]

That’s great. The other guy was actually effective and took wickets.
Someone bring up that variations meme again.

Ashwin actually set up India in the first two tests and took more wickets than Jadeja in the process.

 

[subshakerz]

He is not saying that Ashwin was not effective. subz is saying that Jadeja was ineffective which he is contesting. Both Ashwin and Jadeja have been very good in Australia in recent times.

No, Jadeja was effective but in a support bowler role, while Ashwin was more effective in a prime bowler role despite not having as flattering figures as Jadeja.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ashwin tied Smith up in knots for the first two tests and played a match saving innings at Sydney. He should've got man of the series imo.

 

[Senile Sentry]

No, Jadeja was effective but in a support bowler role, while Ashwin was more effective in a prime bowler role despite not having as flattering figures as Jadeja.

Thar is quite an incorrect take, unless you ignore MCG 2nd innings and SCG test fully.

I felt Ashwin thrived when the pitch was slightly helpful for his style of bowling. The moment the pitch became the slightest easy for batting, he started struggling. SCG was a prime example. Aus got the first and best use of the pitch and immediately the sting in his tail sort of disappeared. On the same pitch, Jadeja however bowled much better and ended up with a four for.

It's a shame Jaddu didn't get a second chance in that test due to injury.

 

[OverratedSanity]

He is not saying that Ashwin was not effective.

No he was definitely implying that Ashwin wasnt effective by saying " The other guy was actually effective and took wickets. ". I'm not sure if he's completely forgotten how good Ashwin was in the first two tests. Smith had no clue what to do against him and he actually put us in prime position to win the first test which was wasted by the batsmen.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Ashwin tied Smith up in knots for the first two tests and played a match saving innings at Sydney. He should've got man of the series imo.

That would mean completely ignoring his bowling imat SCG which was one of the reasons why Aus managed to put up a decent total, esp in 2nd innings. It is arguable, on the evidence of 1st innings that if Jadeja was available, India wouldn't have had to chase an almost impossible total. Add his batting to the mix and SCG could have ended up being a much more competitive affair than India just trying to survive.

 

[OverratedSanity]

That would mean completely ignoring his bowling imat SCG which was one of the reasons why Aus managed to put up a decent total, esp in 2nd innings. It is arguable, on the evidence of 1st innings that if Jadeja was available, India wouldn't have had to chase an almost impossible total. Add his batting to the mix and SCG could have ended up being a much more competitive affair than India just trying to survive.

You're stupidly making my post into a Jadeja vs Ashwin thing when it wasn't. Ashwin played 3 tests, Was superb with the ball in 2, and saved the game in the third when not fully fit.

If you want to make an argument for someone else deserving man of the series then fine do so, but what you responded with was entirely irrelevant.

 

[subshakerz]

Thar is quite an incorrect take, unless you ignore MCG 2nd innings and SCG test fully.

I felt Ashwin thrived when the pitch was slightly helpful for his style of bowling. The moment the pitch became the slightest easy for batting, he started struggling. SCG was a prime example. Aus got the first and best use of the pitch and immediately the sting in his tail sort of disappeared. On the same pitch, Jadeja however bowled much better and ended up with a four for.

It's a shame Jaddu didn't get a second chance in that test due to injury.

I think Ashwin setting up the first two games for India in the 1st innings was more match impact that Jadeja, particularly with removing Smith.

Jadeja was just used as a backup option to stem the flow of runs and got wickets as a bonus. Well bowled but Ashwin was more important even if his figures aren't as good.

 

[_00_deathscar]

My point is Ashwin gets plaudits for galaxy braining, explaining in detail what he does, and random variations.
The other guy doesn’t get the same level of credit - he’s seen as a simpler bowler cos he runs in and bowls hard and fast and he isn’t “that simple”. He’s just as effective.
Which isn’t to say that Ashwin isn’t a better bowler, just that the other guy is nearly as effective in actually doing the job required - taking wickets, keeping runs down.
Ashwin’s seen as Wasim, who again was great, but not as good as he SHOULD have been given he could bowl whatever he wanted to.

 

[Senile Sentry]

My point is Ashwin gets plaudits for galaxy braining, explaining in detail what he does, and random variations.
The other guy doesn’t get the same level of credit - he’s seen as a simpler bowler cos he runs in bad bowls hard and fast and he isn’t “that simple”. He’s just as effective.
Which isn’t to say that Ashwin isn’t a better bowler, just that the other guy is nearly as effective in actually doing the job required - taking wickets, keeping runs down.
Ashwin’s seen as Wasim, who again was great, but not as good as he SHOULD have been given he could bowl whatever he wanted to.

Good analogy. My thoughts veered to McGrath when I think about Jadeja. McGrath isn't really talked of as a person with variations and made for all climes kind of a bowler - but in reality was exceptionally efficient every where pretty much. Primarily because of his relentless accuracy. He wasn't a showman like Akram. Akram wanted to show to the world his weaponry and mastery and revel in the plaudits. There's nothing wrong in that - but the pursuit of it could also result in slightly lesser efficiency. Ashwin is also of the same kind. He wants the world to be in awe of him - and is an inherent showman. Jaddu on the other hand, like McGrath, prefers to keep excelling at his trade without experimenting much.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I wanted to make that analogy but didn’t extend it to McGrath cos McGrath was a tier above Wasim and Jadeja isn’t a tier above Ashwin. At the very best they’re similar tier, and maybe Jadeja is a tier lower if you want to go down that route.
Wasim/Pollock is maybe better, but I also think Pollock is a clear tier below Wasim, whereas I think there’s an argument for Jadeja to be same tier as Ashwin.

 

[_00_deathscar]

I think Ashwin setting up the first two games for India in the 1st innings was more match impact that Jadeja, particularly with removing Smith.

Jadeja was just used as a backup option to stem the flow of runs and got wickets as a bonus. Well bowled but Ashwin was more important even if his figures aren't as good.

I don’t think that’s necessarily incorrect specific to the series, but over the course of their career I think Ashwin seems to be seen as this clearly much better bowler - which yes he probably is - but isn’t actually necessarily always more effective.

The latest Cricinfo article actually says Jadeja removes top order bats more than any other spinner in history bar Murali I believe. Of course the likes of Warne didn’t always get that chance, but since Ashwin and Jadeja are in the same team, it does say a lot.

 

[Senile Sentry]

I don’t think that’s necessarily incorrect specific to the series, but over the course of their career I think Ashwin seems to be seen as this clearly much better bowler - which yes he probably is - but isn’t actually necessarily always more effective.

The latest Cricinfo article actually says Jadeja removes top order bats more than any other spinner in history bar Murali I believe. Of course the likes of Warne didn’t always get that chance, but since Ashwin and Jadeja are in the same team, it does say a lot.

Can you pls link to this article ?

 

[_00_deathscar]

The other point to remember is that Ashwin actually excels vs left handers. His average vs right handers isn’t so hot (comparatively speaking of course) - and most test teams aren’t packed with lefties.