Best Batsman Besides Bradman (inactive players only)

[RossTaylorsBox]

Michael Bracewell

Glad this **** is inactive

 

[Slifer]

Yes. Ind and Pak atleast in terms of bowling were nearly minnow level. Except maybe towards the end, when Ind had the quartet.

That's not unique to Sobers. Smith has bashed his fair share of pathetic attacks: current WI (away), Sachin bashed Zim/Ban, hell even Bradman bashed South Africa, WI and India. Sobers made runs vs the stronger teams of his time. Curiously, he stunk vs NZ. Still one of the many head-scratchers of cricket.

 

[Coronis]

I mean people should be bashing minnows, shouldn’t they? Still Bradman was overrated, we shouldn’t talk about him needing 4 in his last innings for 100, it should be 12 for a 90 average vs England imo.


Interesting - though Australia is traditionally an easier place to bat than England, Bradman really struggled vs England here (78) Thank god for the minnows

 

[Godard]

Sobers did excessive minnow bashing. He has scored some 980 runs vs Pak@83, and 1900 runs vs Ind@89. His average vs Aus and NZ is below 45, and vs Eng he’s done well. His record is extremely skewed towards Ind and Pak. Bradman’s average is some 92 against Eng only. Sachin’s runs against Ban and Zim are a much lower percentage of his career runs than Sobers, and Sachin averages 50+ vs Aus, SL, Eng, Wi and 45+ vs NZ, 40+ vs SA and Pak, not below 40 vs any nation. So his minnow bashing is far below Sobers. Smith has scored barely 750 runs against WI, and averages 60 and 70 against the premier oppositions of his career. Lowest average against a opposition is 45 vs Sa. And Sachin and Smith have toured far more countries than Sobers.

 

[Godard]

I mean people should be bashing minnows, shouldn’t they? Still Bradman was overrated, we shouldn’t talk about him needing 4 in his last innings for 100, it should be 12 for a 90 average vs England imo.

Again bashing minnows is not bad, but a if guy with a similar or better record(like Smith vs Sobers), does it by less minnow bashing, I will choose him.

 

[Slifer]

Sobers did excessive minnow bashing. He has scored some 980 runs vs Pak@83, and 1900 runs vs Ind@89. His average vs Aus and NZ is below 45, and vs Eng he’s done well. His record is extremely skewed towards Ind and Pak. Bradman’s average is some 92 against Eng only. Sachin’s runs against Ban and Zim are a much lower percentage of his career runs than Sobers, and Sachin averages 50+ vs Aus, SL, Eng, Wi and 45+ vs NZ, 40+ vs SA and Pak, not below 40 vs any nation. So his minnow bashing is far below Sobers. Smith has scored barely 750 runs against WI, and averages 60 and 70 against the premier oppositions of his career. Lowest average against a opposition is 45 vs Sa. And Sachin and Smith have toured far more countries than Sobers.

Ok I'm curious then, post Sachin's and Sober's records with the respective minnows removed.

 

[Godard]

Ok I'm curious then, post Sachin's and Sober's records with the respective minnows removed.

4724@53.6(excluding Ind, NZ and Pak for Sobers)
Sachins record will exclude post 2001 Zim and all Bang teams
14648@51.6.

 

[Godard]

Considering Sachin scored 3 times the runs@ a very similar average, despite the fact he toured more major nations, and played in a clearly tougher era for the first half of his career(when he averaged around 58-59), I would easily put his record ahead.

 

[shortpitched713]

Impressive how well the batting version of James Anderson is doing here (Yes, I've been sitting on this zinger for a while, don't judge me).

 

[subshakerz]

Sobers did excessive minnow bashing. He has scored some 980 runs vs Pak@83, and 1900 runs vs Ind@89. His average vs Aus and NZ is below 45, and vs Eng he’s done well. His record is extremely skewed towards Ind and Pak. Bradman’s average is some 92 against Eng only. Sachin’s runs against Ban and Zim are a much lower percentage of his career runs than Sobers, and Sachin averages 50+ vs Aus, SL, Eng, Wi and 45+ vs NZ, 40+ vs SA and Pak, not below 40 vs any nation. So his minnow bashing is far below Sobers. Smith has scored barely 750 runs against WI, and averages 60 and 70 against the premier oppositions of his career. Lowest average against a opposition is 45 vs Sa. And Sachin and Smith have toured far more countries than Sobers.

Pakistan had Fazal Mahmood so how are they minnow level?

 

[trundler]

Pakistan had Fazal Mahmood so how are they minnow level?

Hutton averaged 6.33 against Fazal.

 

[Coronis]

Anyway its between Hobbs, Sobers and Tendulkar for me. I have them at a very similar level. I’ll go for Hobbs this time, another day I might pick one of the other two.

 

[Godard]

Fine. But irrespective of whether Sobers minnow bashed or not, Smith had a more rounded and better home away record, despite batting for the second half of his career in a tougher era than Sobers. I would still rate Viv, Sachin, Hobbs> Sobers

 

[subshakerz]

Anyway its between Hobbs, Sobers and Tendulkar for me. I have them at a very similar level. I’ll go for Hobbs this time, another day I might pick one of the other two.

Again, I will bring by modern era bias here.

Hobbs basically played two teams. How can he compare favorable to Tendulkar who played so many varied attacks and pitches over 200 tests in two decades?

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Again, I will bring by modern era bias here.

Hobbs basically played two teams. How can he compare favorable to Tendulkar who played so many varied attacks and pitches over 200 tests in two decades?

2 countries doesn’t mean less varied pitches.Hobbs played on more/equal pitches that modern players did.And certainly more challenging. Bouncy, Swinging, Matting, Uncovered wickets in England,Gluepot in Australia.The only difference is Hobbs mastered in all of them.

 

[Godard]

Hobbs may not have have played a wider variety of attacks than Tendulkar but he had to adjust between more extreme and varying conditions than Tendulkar(uncovered pitches, matted pitches, fast and dry wickets, bouncy wickets), and these conditions were far more challenging than anything encountered by modern batsmen. And yes Hobbs mastered all of them.

 

[subshakerz]

2 countries doesn’t mean less varied pitches.Hobbs played on more/equal pitches that modern players did.And certainly more challenging. Bouncy, Swinging, Matting, Uncovered wickets in England,Gluepot in Australia.The only difference is Hobbs mastered in all of them.

Maybe but I would doubt anyone can say he was remotely as tested as Tendulkar.

 

[shortpitched713]

Even given a certain modern era bias, why has Tendulkar come out far ahead of Lara? During the latter stages of career wasn't the concensus pretty even on them? Is it just due to nothing but longevity for Tendulkar? If so, I thought we didn't do that sort of think here at CW (ala Anderson).

 

[Coronis]

Again, I will bring by modern era bias here.

Hobbs basically played two teams. How can he compare favorable to Tendulkar who played so many varied attacks and pitches over 200 tests in two decades?

You can only play the conditions and opposition available to you. Hobbs excelled in this playing in Australia and England on uncovered pitches and on the matting pitches in SA and was clearly ahead of all his contemporaries pre-war and at the very top alongside others post-war. He himself (and others?) thought he was clearly better pre-war, than post war, yet his average barely changed and he scored centuries more frequently (though batting was more difficult pre war, its still quite impressive). He still remains the second fastest man to 5000 runs (behind you know who) and the oldest player to score a test century. He played for 22 years and was unfortunate to have his career interrupted by the war, which occurred right during his prime.

No doubt he didn’t play as much opposition as Tendulkar or in as many countries, but I’m not going to downgrade him for that. He played against the opposition available and the conditions available and excelled remarkably.

 

[Godard]

Maybe but I would doubt anyone can say he was remotely as tested as Tendulkar.

He was. Faced far more varying pitches and conditions, not attacks tho.