Steve Smith vs Viv Richards

[Prince EWS]

I am amazed that @Prince EWS has voted for Viv. PEWS does not even consider Viv to be in top 20 batsmen ever iirc. Where does he rate Smith then ?

muh roads

 

[Coronis]

Damn I always used to be excited when my votes matched PEWS’

 

[Chrish]

Well Smith is still playing so.. Answer is neither?

 

[shortpitched713]

I only picked Viv, because of my policy of picking the player with less votes in these kind of polls. I think they're a lot closer than the poll indicates. I guess maybe some of the people who saw Viv live are passing on from this forum (or the mortal coil), and it's starting to work against him.

Gun to head, I would probably give an edge to Smith, but it also all depends on how the last part of his career goes. It's certainly possible he might still do a Kohli for the years before he retires and ruin whats been thus far a "GOAT barring Bradman" run.

 

[Coronis]

I only picked Viv, because of my policy of picking the player with less votes in these kind of polls. I think they're a lot closer than the poll indicates. I guess maybe some of the people who saw Viv live are passing on from this forum (or the mortal coil), and it's starting to work against him.

Gun to head, I would probably give an edge to Smith, but it also all depends on how the last part of his career goes. It's certainly possible he might still do a Kohli for the years before he retires and ruin whats been thus far a "GOAT barring Bradman" run.

Just for fun: Smith would need 31 consecutive ducks to reach Viv.

 

[CricAddict]

I only picked Viv, because of my policy of picking the player with less votes in these kind of polls. I think they're a lot closer than the poll indicates. I guess maybe some of the people who saw Viv live are passing on from this forum (or the mortal coil), and it's starting to work against him.

Gun to head, I would probably give an edge to Smith, but it also all depends on how the last part of his career goes. It's certainly possible he might still do a Kohli for the years before he retires and ruin whats been thus far a "GOAT barring Bradman" run.

Viv does still have that aura but we are comparing averages of 60 and 50 over a 10 yr career.

One point in favor of Viv and Sachin is, like Shri said, formats didn't matter for them. They were number one in all formats they played. Smith while good is not great in odis and nowhere in t20s.

I know we are talking only tests here but the reason Smith lacks Viv's aura is due to his inability to dominate across formats.

 

[shortpitched713]

Just for fun: Smith would need 31 consecutive ducks to reach Viv.

Right, but I think most people don't like to do straight average comparisons, because they don't take into account conditions, but yes Smith is a cracked player.

 

[Chrish]

I will say it once again; how can one make a meaningful comparison of a player who still has good 3 years left?

No offense to OP but the whole thread is silly..

 

[shortpitched713]

I will say it once again; how can one make a meaningful comparison of a player who still has good 3 years left?

No offense to OP but the whole thread is silly..

I don't think it's inherently silly. Yeah, people will bring their biases into it, and we don't have complete info. But we're seeing in real time, with our own eyes this guy's career playing out. It's special, without a doubt, and especially for those who saw both I think it's fair to try and compare in the moment.

 

[Coronis]

I will say it once again; how can one make a meaningful comparison of a player who still has good 3 years left?

No offense to OP but the whole thread is silly..

I mean fair? Probably not. But people (especially us on this forum) will naturally compare current players with the past and discuss where they stand, especially as their careers continue to unfold.

Wouldn’t call it silly at all.

Anyway here’s Viv’s stats at Smith’s current age, perhaps it would be a more meaningful comparison?

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Godard]

I’d say right now they are tied. Points in Viv’s favour are he batted for his entire career in tougher batting conditions, a better short team peak, and for atleast a series dominated the best bowlers of his time(and some of all time) like even Sachin or Lara couldn’t(and he overall also has favourable matchups against them) and his faster rate of scoring which meant he could change the game is the matter of a session, and his unprecedented psychological impact on the bowlers, like ending Rodney Hogg’s career in matter of 8-9 overs( this is one point that shows that stats can’t always measure of a player, especially like Viv). For Smith, the points are obvious, averaging a clear 10 ahead, majority of his career being a never ending peak(quite spectacular short term peaks in his own right), a marginally better home away record, and no slump in form till date.

note: One place where Viv does better a lot of ATGs(Smith and also Tendulkar included) is very balanced record by innings(1-4), all are 48 average or above. Some great 4th innings by Viv that come to mind are the 61(36) that helped WI chase 180 in 30 overs, and a more measured century in the fourth innings vs Ind on a crumbling Feroz Shah Kotla pitch. Smith does overwhelmingly well in the first and second, but his record in the 3 and 4th(especially) here is found wanting.

 

[Burgey]

Just for fun: Smith would need 31 consecutive ducks to reach Viv.

Lol

That’s insane

 

[TheJediBrah]

I've seen Australian fans say this about the Smith-Archer contest seemingly in an attempt to say Archer comprehensively lost because he couldn't get him out .

Smith got injured and missed a whole test, contributing 0 runs at Headingley. That's a direct result of him not playing an Archer bouncer well. It's an outcome that's actually better for England than just getting Smith out in that particular innings. It might sound callous, that's not my intention. But I really don't think Smith not getting out to Archer should be seen as some victory for him when what actually happened was worse than getting caught in the deep or something.

I agree with this completely.

Could take it a step further though and say that Archer knocking Smith out for a game actually helped Australia and hurt England (and the rest of the cricket world) in the long run by giving Marnus his chance which he likely wouldn't have got that series, and who knows when he would have got in if not for Smith missing that game.

 

[Flem274*]

I agree with this completely.

Could take it a step further though and say that Archer knocking Smith out for a game actually helped Australia and hurt England (and the rest of the cricket world) in the long run by giving Marnus his chance which he likely wouldn't have got that series, and who knows when he would have got in if not for Smith missing that game.

So you're saying England ruined everything for the world yet again for their own short term gain?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Absolutely. It's actually conceivable that Marnus as we know it wouldn't have happened if not for that. He didn't dominate domestic cricket and his national selection was never a sure thing.

 

[Spark]

Eh I think it was pretty firm internally that Marnus was the next cab off the rank and both Usman and Head got dropped during that series IIRC. Would have played at Old Trafford IMO.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm not saying it's likely, but it's conceivable. Even if he did get a game in that series eventually there's no guarantee he would have done as well, nor would he have batted at the same position if Smith was still there. Easily could have gone very differently.

 

[BazBall21]

Voted Viv in the end but think Smith is very likely to finish higher.

 

[shortpitched713]

I'm not saying it's likely, but it's conceivable. Even if he did get a game in that series eventually there's no guarantee he would have done as well, nor would he have batted at the same position if Smith was still there. Easily could have gone very differently.

I think Marnus is way too talented to not have broke in and excelled, one way or another.

 

[BazBall21]

I think Marnus is way too talented to not have broke in and excelled, one way or another.

I tend to agree with this now.