What is your definition of ATG?

[subshakerz]

That could just be because Australian voices are louder than Sri Lankan ones though. Maybe Ponting just played in more marquee series by virtue of being Australian whilst Sanga was murdering Ajmal mercilessly in front of 50 construction workers and a bored Sheikh.

There is some truth to that.

Dravid got more fanfare than Sanga simply for playing more in England and Australia for example. Sanga also didnt create much of an impression in these countries in his first tours there.

But I still believe if Sanga was Tendulkar/Lara level of top batsman of the era he would have been recognized as such during his playing days. My sense is that he was perceived as a level below and I don't think it was just a matter of not playing enough.

Ponting got to Tendulkar/Lara level of rating by virtue of being the standout batsman of the 2000s decade. I dont think it was just over promotion.

 

[subshakerz]

Re-reading this thread, I couldn't quite believe there were comments about Kallis not being an ATG with the bat??? Mid 50s average, watertight technique, bats for long periods etc

The bloke strolls into most ATG XI's as a bat imo

Because if based on our criteria, Dravid wouldnt be an ATG, and neither would Kallis with the same MO.

 

[ZK$]

If Chappell, Ponting, Border, and Waugh are ATGs, then Kallis and Sangakkara are ATGs as well.

 

[subshakerz]

If Chappell, Ponting, Border, and Waugh are ATGs, then Kallis and Sangakkara are ATGs as well.

Waugh is borderline. Sanga to me is as well. Kallis is clearly rated below the others as a pure bat.

 

[Red]

Waugh is borderline. Sanga to me is as well. Kallis is clearly rated below the others as a pure bat.

Not sure why Waugh is “borderline”. Nor why Kallis is rated below the others.

Neither would look ridiculous in a world ATG XI or in their own nations’ ATG XIs.

 

[subshakerz]

Not sure why Waugh is “borderline”. Nor why Kallis is rated below the others.

Neither would look ridiculous in a world ATG XI or in their own nations’ ATG XIs.

Admittedly it is a tricky affair.

Sanga and Kallis seem closer to greats than ATGs. Waugh is pretty much Border to me but a bit less rated for some reason.

 

[peterhrt]

2000 Test runs, average 50, both home and away:

England: Hammond, Hutton, Barrington
Australia: Bradman, Greg Chappell, Steve Smith
India: Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid
South Africa: Kallis
West Indies: Sobers
Sri Lanka: Sangakkara
Zimbabwe: Flower

100 Test wickets, average under 25, both home and away:

Australia: Grimmett, Lindwall, Lillee, McGrath
West Indies: Garner, Marshall, Ambrose
South Africa: Donald, Steyn
New Zealand: Hadlee
Pakistan: Wasim Akram

Grimmett is the only spinner.

 

[Coronis]

2000 Test runs, average 50, both home and away:

England: Hammond, Hutton, Barrington
Australia: Bradman, Greg Chappell, Steve Smith
India: Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid
South Africa: Kallis
West Indies: Sobers
Sri Lanka: Sangakkara
Zimbabwe: Flower

100 Test wickets, average under 25, both home and away:

Australia: Grimmett, Lindwall, Lillee, McGrath
West Indies: Garner, Marshall, Ambrose
South Africa: Donald, Steyn
New Zealand: Hadlee
Pakistan: Wasim Akram

Grimmett is the only spinner.

I knew it. Grum the true GOAT.

Hobbs and Sutcliffe so close to the 2000 run cutoff.

 

[_00_deathscar]

2000 Test runs, average 50, both home and away:

England: Hammond, Hutton, Barrington
Australia: Bradman, Greg Chappell, Steve Smith
India: Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Dravid
South Africa: Kallis
West Indies: Sobers
Sri Lanka: Sangakkara
Zimbabwe: Flower

100 Test wickets, average under 25, both home and away:

Australia: Grimmett, Lindwall, Lillee, McGrath
West Indies: Garner, Marshall, Ambrose
South Africa: Donald, Steyn
New Zealand: Hadlee
Pakistan: Wasim Akram

Grimmett is the only spinner.

Interesting criteria but isn’t that incredibly harsh on openers?
And quite era dependent though it is interesting that the 00s spammers didn’t make it in, only Sanga did. Kallis, Dravid and Ponting too but they also made runs in the 90s.
Also not convinced a 50/50 batsman is better than a 65/45 (home/away) theoretical batsman.

Oh **** Ponying didn’t make it in at all