*Official* Australia vs West Indies - Frank Worrell Trophy 2022

[ataraxia]

Do you mean in Aus or test cricket in general?

If its the latter, then its blatantly untrue. I thought its well established fact that wickets have been far more favourable for bowlers in recent times despite Ramiz rajas best efforts to change it.

I'm talking of 00s Aus there, sorry for not being clear

 

[TheJediBrah]

Both of them were worse than Bevan, Elliot, Blewett etc who were test class but nothing more over a decentish sample size. None of these guys would be better than Khawaja or Marnus over a full career. Mark Waugh who was a level above all of them averaged 41. So no, some random shield batter from 20 years ago isn't automatically better than proven world class batsmen, especially in this era.

Never figured out why you have such a strong opinion on this topic given you weren't even around when these guys were playing. Looks like you're judging everyone based purely on what they did in Test cricket (except Bevan, who ironically is the one guy you're right about), which is why you think Elliott and Blewett were better than Hodge and Love, which they weren't. It's like you see Blewett and Elliott played 15+ Tests so they must be "Test class", whereas Hodge and Love didn't say they aren't. It's weird because you're usually more logical than this.

I grew up watching these guys and I've watched a lot of Marnus. Marnus isn't as good as quite a few of the guys on that list.

 

[Prince EWS]

I also have no clue what side will be picked on Wednesday, we have so many injuries. Bonner concussed, Mayers can't bowl, Roach highly doubtful, Seales nursing a knee injury.

My team would be:

Braithwaite
Chanderpaul
Blackwood
Brooks (no choice as he's the backup batsman)
Thomas (will probably fail but deserves the chance)
Holder
Da Silva (wk)
Chase (he's not good enough but has to play to balance the side)
Joseph
Phillip (Roach is so bad with the kookabura anyway it's worth go regardless)
Seales

If Mayers can't bowl I don't think he makes the side as a speciast batsman in these conditions. Though Brooks is so meh I wouldn;t complain if he did get a play instead of him.

Mayers > Brooks IMO, but yeah it's slim pickings at that point.

Thomas can take Mayers' bowling role. @Starfighter and @GoodAreasShane to confirm.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Never figured out why you have such a strong opinion on this topic given you weren't even around when these guys were playing.

@trundler to be fair that's not entirely true, you've mentioned it before and I understand you have a very hard time accepting the idea that one country was that strong for a period of time. I also know you choose to think it's a case of the typical fallacy of fans thinking their back-up players are better than they actually are. I do see your logic, it's just wrong.

 

[Gob]

We have to compare Bevan to Marnus on ICC ranking graph and analyse it further

 

[mr_mister]

Bevan was an ATG test bowling all rounder. The numbers don't lie

 

[TheJediBrah]

Marnus isn't half the batsman Bevan was, even in red-ball. I'm offended that anyone would even compare them

 

[GotSpin]

Mayers > Brooks IMO, but yeah it's slim pickings at that point.

Thomas can take Mayers' bowling role. @Starfighter and @GoodAreasShane to confirm.

Should give JDS some more responsibility up the order

 

[Daemon]

I grew up watching these guys and I've watched a lot of Marnus. Marnus isn't as good as quite a few of the guys on that list.

This actually explains it really well. You only watch Australian cricket and back then you watched the shield too. So your perception is slightly warped.

As is your face.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This actually explains it really well. You only watch Australian cricket and back then you watched the shield too. So your perception is slightly warped.

As is your face.

I watched a lot of Aus domestic cricket back then but I also watched nearly every Test match and ODI from around the world, I would stay up all night quite often my parents were mad. So no my perception is not warped. Anything from world cricket from 1999 until about 2009 I am very familiar with.

 

[Daemon]

No wonder you have a warped perception of that time period too. Meanwhile trundler is on the other end of that spectrum having not watched that era.

This is all quite interesting and insightful.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't agree with your TJB warped perception policy, but I do agree with your Trundler warped perception policy

 

[TheJediBrah]

No wonder you have a warped perception of that time period too. Meanwhile trundler is on the other end of that spectrum having not watched that era.

This is all quite interesting and insightful.

Serious question, what do you think is warped about my perception? I'd like to know, you could have a point.

 

[trundler]

I think it's overstating bench strength dialled up to 11 with shades of the Bond myth. Plus I don't get how those guys who couldn't break in would average 45 when M Waugh and Bevan didn't. Australia played a lot of meh bats from time to time and the third seamers were only okish too. Tests are a whole 'nother level so I just don't see it tbh. Plus you refuse to accept that Bevan had a short ball problem in tests so it seems like you're being very nostalgic in your assesment.

If you only went off the IPL you'd agree with Pandya suggesting India can put 4 teams out there and still win any tournament.. but they can't.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I think it's overstating bench strength dialled up to 11 with shades of the Bond myth. Plus I don't get how those guys who couldn't break in would average 45 when M Waugh and Bevan didn't. Australia played a lot of meh bats from time to time and the third seamers were only okish too. Tests are a whole 'nother level so I just don't see it tbh. Plus you refuse to accept that Bevan had a short ball problem in tests so it seems like you're being very nostalgic in your assesment.

If you only went off the IPL you'd agree with Pandya suggesting India can put 4 teams out there and still win any tournament.. but they can't.

I've gone on the record saying that Mark Waugh wasn't anything special compared to a lot of the bench strength and I stand by that. Great ODI player though. I also think MWaugh was a slightly different period (as was Bevan in Tests). He played mostly in the 90s and it was from about 2000 onward that the Aus domestic batsmen really got a lot better. Add that to the softening in batting conditions in the 00s and thinking that the likes of Love & Hodge would average under 45 would be a very brave call.

The Bevan short-ball "problem" is rubbish and always has been, I would be happy to accept it if there were any veracity in it

Anyway I can accept that you have your opinion, but I don't really respect it because it sucks, you weren't around to experience any of it and your basing it completely on assumptions

 

[ataraxia]

India's 4th team would win every tournament tbh, beat Australia away with net bowlers did you hear?

its just chokehli and choKL losing every game (not to mention boobi chokemar)

 

[ataraxia]

To the point, Bevan gud but anyone saying he's a better test batsman than Labuschagne is being an absolute TJB.

 

[TheJediBrah]

To the point, Bevan gud but anyone saying he's a better test batsman than Labuschagne is being an absolute TJB.

You can't say he was a better Test batsman than Marnus, it just didn't happen.

However if you took the 2 and put them in 100 different career paths and let them hash it out I gurantee Bevan would have the better career in 95 of them

 

[trundler]

Anyway I can accept that you have your opinion, but I don't really respect it because it sucks, you weren't around to experience any of it and your basing it completely on assumptions

But.. you're assuming those guys would be better than yer Juniors in tests despite not being better in FC. Mark Waugh killed it at that level too. Great FC batsman to ok test batsman is a far more likely trajectory.

 

[TheJediBrah]

But.. you're assuming those guys would be better than yer Juniors in tests despite not being better in FC. Mark Waugh killed it at that level too. Great FC batsman to ok test batsman is a far more likely trajectory.

Very reasonable and I guess we'll never know. But what I saw of them and what I saw of Test cricket in the 2000s leads to me to strongly believe they would likely have had very good careers.

Also to be clear it's not every Aus domestic batsman that I think this about. Elliott, Blewett, Maher I think were overrated. Probably Law too. Symonds would have been eaten alive if picked in Tests before 2004.