England test tour of Pakistan December 2022

[thierry henry]

Honestly England just ****ing GROW UP you absolute *****

 

[Everton Seymour]

Baz was also the captain of NZ once and the team did play aggressive cricket then and did not unleash a new era of test cricket in any way

It wasn't anywhere near as chaotic as this , how many test teams have chased down 300+ in the 4th innings in the space of a handful of tests ? This is probably going to be one of the highest Day 1 lunch day scores in the history of test cricket..records are tumbling..

 

[honestbharani]

Australia regularly scored at high rates throughout the 00s. This was deemed revolutionary at the time. It was an era of flat pitches. Subsequently, whenever difficult conditions have been encountered, run rates slowed down to more normal levels, or teams got bowled out for very low totals.

No coincidence that England were able to make this tactic work both with the flattest pitches seen there for years and the reduction in the size of the seam on the Dukes ball ordered by the ECB, as well as a widely attested decline in its quality over the past year.


It is a relevant comparison as it shows the flaws in your argument. Both Roy and Finch were given every chance to play hair natural game. Roy was pretty much told to do so. They both failed, because their natural game couldn't cope with moving ball. The fact their strike rates were lower was not a consequence of them not playing their natural games, but rather that they didn't work in tests.

All this talk of Bazball misses an important point. At least twice and if not more times, England and Bairstow showed they could just play through the tough times, survive and then take advantage later. Its how they chased against India and they had to withstand a lot of high quality fast bowling spells to be there. I just think when they do decide to attack, they have more options now with all the T20 and ODI shots having crept into the test batting but the basics of seeing through tough spells still remains an important part of test cricket and its something they actually did well a few times even in the English summer this year.

 

[Everton Seymour]

Australia regularly scored at high rates throughout the 00s. This was deemed revolutionary at the time. It was an era of flat pitches. Subsequently, whenever difficult conditions have been encountered, run rates slowed down to more normal levels, or teams got bowled out for very low totals.

No coincidence that England were able to make this tactic work both with the flattest pitches seen there for years and the reduction in the size of the seam on the Dukes ball ordered by the ECB, as well as a widely attested decline in its quality over the past year.


It is a relevant comparison as it shows the flaws in your argument. Both Roy and Finch were given every chance to play hair natural game. Roy was pretty much told to do so. They both failed, because their natural game couldn't cope with moving ball. The fact their strike rates were lower was not a consequence of them not playing their natural games, but rather that they didn't work in tests.

Roy's chance was before Bazball era though , you genuinely believe nothing would have been different if he played now in his prime?

 

[Starfighter]

Roy's chance was before Bazball era though , you genuinely believe nothing would have been different if he played now in his prime?

No. You clearly only watch scorecards without seeing the actual cricket involved.

Roy tried to do what's going on out there. But in the conditions, and with his technique, he couldn't.

 

[ashley bach]

This should be fun when England decide to put the foot down.

 

[Socerer 01]

It wasn't anywhere near as chaotic as this , how many test teams have chased down 300+ in the 4th innings in the space of a handful of tests ? This is probably going to be one of the highest Day 1 lunch day scores in the history of test cricket..records are tumbling..

as already pointed out all of this has been in the flattest conditions in England in years with a defective Duke’s. This abomination of a pitch is conducive to the way they play too. There’s no way this works on an Indian or South African pitch

 

[morgieb]

142 needed to win, can Pakistan chase it down?

 

[Prince EWS]

142 needed to win, can Pakistan chase it down?

Not sure, it's a tricky pitch.

 

[Zinzan]

142 needed to win, can Pakistan chase it down?

Very poor death overs from England after that solid start. Should have finished 180 minimum.

 

[Burgey]

Looks as though Parramatta alumnus Ben Duckett is so far getting the better of his match up with former Western Suburbs second grader Haris Rauf.

 

[Daemon]

It wasn't anywhere near as chaotic as this , how many test teams have chased down 300+ in the 4th innings in the space of a handful of tests ? This is probably going to be one of the highest Day 1 lunch day scores in the history of test cricket..records are tumbling..

Nobody is doubting this new aggressive approach has worked for England (in specific conditions/situations).

But to claim it's unlocked some kind of new way to play Test cricket is really a stretch.

 

[Howe_zat]

If this game ends up at 500 v 500 which it looks like it might it's going to be annoying when people focus entirely on the pitch and not on the home side fielding 3 debutants in their attack, of which one has a crap domestic record anyway, and the toursits are fielding an attack that includes Liam Livingstone for some reason.

Like, bowlers exist.

 

[straw man]

til Bazball Zac Crawley > gastro virus

 

[Howe_zat]

Nobody is doubting this new aggressive approach has worked for England (in specific conditions/situations).

But to claim it's unlocked some kind of new way to play Test cricket is really a stretch.

It's also really specific to the type of player England happen to have available right now. If Crawley plays without trying to get on top of the bowling right away he's a sitting duck.

One thing it has made me change my mind on a bit is that I used to think variety was absolutely key from a batting order, whereas now I think there's a lot to be said for unity of approach for lifting mediocre players up to standard by being part of a specific strat rather than flailing about on their own.

 

[Zinzan]

Nobody is doubting this new aggressive approach has worked for England (in specific conditions/situations).

But to claim it's unlocked some kind of new way to play Test cricket is really a stretch.

This 'aggressive' approach is more measured, tactical & calculated than England and McCullum get credit for under the tasteless & cringeworthy 'bazball' term. They do go hard, but they seem to pick their moments when things are in their favour, or perhaps to force a field change/put a bowler off their lines.

 

[Zinzan]

It's also really specific to the type of player England happen to have available right now. If Crawley plays without trying to get on top of the bowling right away he's a sitting duck.

Yes, most definitely true of Crawley that.

 

[Socerer 01]

This 'aggressive' approach is more measured, tactical & calculated than England and McCullum get credit for under the tasteless & cringeworthy 'bazball' term. They do go hard, but they seem to pick their moments when things are in their favour, or perhaps to force a field change/put a bowler off their lines.

hb was saying the same and I can’t disagree. This has worked so far because they are playing to the strengths of their players like their odi side which went hard because their bowlers were worse than the opponent’s on average but had extra batting depth to compensate for it

 

[Starfighter]

If this game ends up at 500 v 500 which it looks like it might it's going to be annoying when people focus entirely on the pitch and not on the home side fielding 3 debutants in their attack, of which one has a crap domestic record anyway, and the toursits are fielding an attack that includes Liam Livingstone for some reason.

Like, bowlers exist.

It's hard to describe how execrable this Pakistan attack is. Two inexperienced bowlers who have been expensive throughout their FC careers even when taking wickets (very bad recipe for a pitch like this) a complete journeyman and a spinner with an awful record. IMO a worse attack than the one they paraded to Australia their last two tours. I wonder when the last time they had one this bad was? The '62 England tour?

At least England have three bowlers with decent records. Leach isn't a good container but Anderson and Robinson are very accurate and should be able to keep the runs down, even if they're not getting wickets.

 

[Daemon]

Looks the most threatening bowler so far