Coronis
International Coach
I should probably include County matches in Test comparisons for a lot more cricketers then too.
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Viv Richards vs Herbert Sutcliffe
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Coronis
International Coach
No doubt he had a drop later on. But say compared to Viv’s discussed peak of 40/120 tests I’d take 38/54 tests any day.I don't know why you keep mentioning this. Sutcliffe having a 60+ average his entire career doesn't really show consistency. It merely shows he had a phenomenal start to his career, averaging 75+ in his first 3 series. He had some bad series later on but because his good series came early in his career, he had a buffer which allowed his cumulative average to stay up. If you simply switched up the order of these series and Sutcliffe had started off with a few series averaging in the 30s and then had massive series later to slowly get his average up to 60 would you say he was less consistent? Of course not.
Also, Sutcliffe low key has a pretty big skew between his peak vs the rest of his career too. He averaged 70 in his first 38 tests. And only averaged a shade above 40 with only 1 hundred in his last 16.
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That's not quite as consistent as you're making out imo.
It's a really tough one to compare players from such different eras for all the reasons people have stated.
Also none of obviously saw Sutcliffe but he was was clearly a top notch player, one of the very best from his era.
Viv is the best batsman I've ever seen although there are many with better records. The main criticism I'd level at Viv, is that his record should have been better - he really should have been averaging around 60 not 50.
With Viv though, it was how he scored his runs rather than how many runs he scored that was so impressive. I've never seen any other batsman play so positively as he did. He could intimidate a bowling attack by his sheer presence. Even the way he walked to the crease was intimidating.
I'd go with Viv as I'd pick him above any other batsman that's played the game bar Bradman.
Also none of obviously saw Sutcliffe but he was was clearly a top notch player, one of the very best from his era.
Viv is the best batsman I've ever seen although there are many with better records. The main criticism I'd level at Viv, is that his record should have been better - he really should have been averaging around 60 not 50.
With Viv though, it was how he scored his runs rather than how many runs he scored that was so impressive. I've never seen any other batsman play so positively as he did. He could intimidate a bowling attack by his sheer presence. Even the way he walked to the crease was intimidating.
I'd go with Viv as I'd pick him above any other batsman that's played the game bar Bradman.
Coronis
International Coach
Oh and I’ll be clear, I have no problem with Viv being rated above Sutcliffe, I think they’re both excellent players, when it comes down to it a lot of these batsmen in the top 15-20 of all time can be interchangeable, with my preferences often changing. I don’t mind admitting either that I probably have a bit of a bias for pre-70’s players in general. The main things that annoy me with these two batsmen on here are Viv being compared with the very top batsman after Bradman (I think the likes of Sobers, Hobbs and Tendulkar are clearly better than him) and Sutcliffe almost seeming as an afterthought in many threads I’ve seen discussing openers, or even people calling Richards a better test batsman.
Shady Slim
International Coach
i do this for some bloke at work ("dodders dodwell") but i do think it's done around here for one or multiple cricketers too, but because it's at the point where it's reflexive rather than deliberate i can't think of who lmao! will sleep on it and hope i remember otherwise it'll gnaw at me too
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Forkers Faulkner on dayboo was a common one.
Shady Slim
International Coach
i thought it might've actually been "n00fers NUFAN" but i can't find any posts where i've said that
Shady Slim
International Coach
tredders tredwell from the english contingent?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Adders @Adders.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Aggers Agnew and Athers Atherton are pretty common even in the actual media.
The difference between County matches and WSC is a lot, cmon. WSC is considered by many to be the most competitive level of cricket played till then since it involved the best cricketers of that time: Lilee, Holding, Khan, Chappel(both), Richards(both) etc. Richards played it for 2 years at his physical peak and missed test matches played by the national side, who were anyway playing mediocre oppositions due to the best players of most countries(except India maybe) involved in WSC. So if anyways he would have cashed in on easier oppositions, people would have been criticising him not for playing WSC just like they do Gavaskar.
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Richard’s peak is scoring some 4700+ runs at an average of 59-60 from 74-80 including WSC. Also Richards peak from 74-80 does consist of 40 or so odd matches along with 14 WSC matches , but he averages close to 50 from 84-88 at an SR of 77 as well in 44 test matches. He didn’t only play poorly post 80. He was mediocre in 82-83(averaging around 39-40, not exceptionally bad), but real decline only was 89-91. To choose Sutcliffe’s peak of 38/54 just because it is a higher proportion out of matches played is misleading, he played less than half tests Viv did and we wouldn’t know how he would perform in 100+ tests. Viv has a peak the length of Sutcliffe’s career from 74-80, and was the best batsmen from 84-88, because of average of 50 with SR of 77.
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a massive zebra
International Captain
Viv played more positively than Sehwag or Gilchrist?
I'm not sure anyone played more positively than Sehwag.
Maybe dominating is a better description of how Viv played.
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
As such all the players have already been compared to all other players in threads like these:
CW's Top 50 Test Batsmen. 2022 Results
Firstly, my thanks @gftw for initiating the voting thread and thanks to all who contributed votes and comments. With voting and comments dwindling, it was felt we should stop at a final Top 50. I have added stats to the list as a matter of interest and for discussion points and here is the...
www.cricketweb.net
CW's Top 40 Pace Bowlers: 2022 Results
Once again, thanks to all involved in the voting and comments on this thread. Here is the final 40 together with relevant figures such as bowling average, strike rate, economy rate and wickets per match. I included the last of these as it is an indication of how important a component of a team's...
www.cricketweb.net
Coronis
International Coach
What we really need is the 50 worst batsmen and bowlers threads.
Shady Slim
International Coach
circling back to this i remembered who the original was
was nufan with "lakkers lakmal"
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
We actually called nufan nuffers...