CricketWeb selects the ATG ODI XI

[srbhkshk]

Greenidge's SR is about 2.5 points higher than Gavaskar.

I can understand having an all-rounder as an opener, but if you try to break Lara - Tendulkar for a pure batsman you are just a **** who hates fun.

 

[subshakerz]

I like the idea of a blaster in an ATG team if you are playing some quality in the lower order. I think if you are playing 5 bowlers it leaves the batting fragile. You are going to lose even against real world sides occasionally through batting collapses.

I'm specifically excluding talking about picking a bowler of Klusener's level (or worse) at 7. They would complement each other well in both disciplines. But even a bowler as poor as Klusener is, he is way better than Jaya, and probably gets more overs even in the SC.

The ATGs from the 50 over era all bowled 8.x overs a match in regular teams (which often included part-timers making up the 5th bowler role, and some rubbish other bowlers). 5-8 might be a reasonable representation of Viv + Jaya + the next weakest bowler in this team if is someone as weak as Klusener, but Jaya bowling all of them might happen 1/100 matches.

I assume having Tendulkar, Viv, Kohli, ABD and Dhoni as your top and middle order, it is essentially collapse-proof as it is the strongest you can get. So it does not matter what you do with the rest of the lineup, you don't plan based on this lineup folding, but just how much more you can score in the limited time.

That would mean the main task for the lower order is more to finish chases or smack the last few overs rather than save the lineup.

The other opener will only make a difference in terms of quickening the scoring early like Jaya or adding more runs like Lara. Quick runs to me are optimum, and if Jaya gets out early its no biggie.

I see 40 overs being shared by four of the strongest main bowlers, and the remaining 10 by the no.7 and Jaya/Sachin/Viv as the situation demands. This gives the captain flexibility.

 

[srbhkshk]

I assume having Tendulkar, Viv, Kohli, ABD and Dhoni as your top and middle order, it is essentially collapse-proof as it is the strongest you can get.

The other opener will only make a difference in terms of quickening the scoring early like Jaya or adding more runs like Lara.

That would mean the main task for the lower order is more to finish chases or smack the last few overs rather than save the lineup.

I see 40 overs being shared by four of the strongest main bowlers, and the remaining 10 by the no.7 and Jaya/Sachin/Viv as the situation demands. This gives the captain flexibility.

It's not actually collapse-proof because you don't expect an ATG side to play against Bangladesh, you are generally (at least they way I think) setting up these sides to be playing against another side of roughly similar quality. The matches probably go very similar numerically to how the normal matches go except for them being really high quality cricket.

Another (somewhat different) hypothesis I will go with is that having 4 ATG bowlers in tandem is going to be extremely hard to handle for even the very best batsmen - generally even good batsman try to play out the great bowlers and attack the also-rans in real games which they can't do here.

 

[harsh.ag]

Jayasuriya

 

[trundler]

Another (somewhat different) hypothesis I will go with is that having 4 ATG bowlers in tandem is going to be extremely hard to handle for even the very best batsmen - generally even good batsman try to play out the great bowlers and attack the also-rans in real games which they can't do here.

This is why I don't want Jayasuriya opening. He would be too much of a liability against whichever 3 ATG pacers are in the second XI.

 

[Burgey]

I have noticed one strange thing on this forum. When it comes to batting averages, they pay far more seriousness to the overall average in tests for batsmen than they do in ODIs. Not necessarily wrong, but interesting.

Guys with fat averages like Rohit and Amla are summarily dismissed by many posters. I am beginning to see why.

I think one reason for that is the primacy of test matches on here means for most of us every test series is considered important whereas a lot of bilateral LO series seem like filler between the main event of the WC (And previously though to a lesser extent, the CT).

 

[subshakerz]

It's not actually collapse-proof because you don't expect an ATG side to play against Bangladesh, you are generally (at least they way I think) setting up these sides to be playing against another side of roughly similar quality. The matches probably go very similar numerically to how the normal matches go except for them being really high quality cricket.

Another (somewhat different) hypothesis I will go with is that having 4 ATG bowlers in tandem is going to be extremely hard to handle for even the very best batsmen - generally even good batsman try to play out the great bowlers and attack the also-rans in real games which they can't do here.

This might sound good in theory but in reality it is a defensive approach.

If you are facing another ATG XI, then you need a mix of ultra attack and regular high quality batsmanship. If your main concern is collapsing with Tendulkar, Viv, Kohli, ABD and Dhoni in your lineup, then frankly it doesn't matter who is opening.

Jaya wasn't Afridi. He did occasionally come good against great bowlers, and when he did he was a matchwinner. So its a strategic gamble. I don't play Jaya to score centuries. I play him to get the quick 30 to 50 that will cushion the rest of the lineup. Again, the blaster at the top is a formula that has worked in ODI cricket so why change it?

But also because Jaya also gave you the spinning 6th bowler option and having only 5 regular bowlers against an ATG lineup is going to cost you if one of them has a bad day.

 

[Prince EWS]

I want to pick Pollock at 7 but if Jaya wins I'll probably have to rethink that. He gives bowling cover and at this level probably wouldn't be quite a proper frontline batsman. I might have to think about Klusener, even though I'm generally very pro-five-bowlers and also seem to rate Klusener's bowling a little less than most.

 

[CricAddict]

I want to pick Pollock at 7 but if Jaya wins I'll probably have to rethink that. He gives bowling cover and at this level probably wouldn't be quite a proper frontline batsman. I might have to think about Klusener, even though I'm generally very pro-five-bowlers and also seem to rate Klusener's bowling a little less than most.

Yes. Lara -Pollock or Jaya-Klusenar is how it will go I think. We could have both Klusenar and Pollock too at 7 and 8.

 

[srbhkshk]

Jaya wasn't Afridi. He did occasionally come good against great bowlers, and when he did he was a matchwinner. So its a strategic gamble. I don't play Jaya to score centuries. I play him to get the quick 30 to 50 that will cushion the rest of the lineup. Again, the blaster at the top is a formula that has worked in ODI cricket so why change it?

That's because you are assuming Jaya will become a (something less than 31)@92 batsman instead of 31@92 when he plays against ATG bowlers. The likely scenario is that against the type of bowling that he is not that good against - his SR will nosedive as well. For batsman who are more capable of handling such bowling, they will still obviously see a major reduction in their SR but I bet it probably wouldn't be as exaggerated as Sanath.

I am not gonna comment on the bowling point because he could be useful at least in SC, but I don't think you are ending up with an unreliable batsman who scores super fast in this scenario - you are ending up with an unreliable batsman who scores at maybe an above average pace.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yes. Lara -Pollock or Jaya-Klusenar is how it will go I think. We could have both Klusenar and Pollock too at 7 and 8.

Yeah I'll be picking Pollock anyway but probably not at 7 if he Jaya wins.

 

[honestbharani]

Klusener Pollock at 7-8 is totally fine for the ATG side IMO.

 

[Godard]

Lara

 

[Bolo.]

If Jaya, I think there is no option but to play Klusener at 7. He is probably the best number 7 in a batting lineup this strong, excluding the players already picked, and the only one who can balance the team with bowling. Leaves the bowling a bit weak, but playing proper bowlers is too much batting weakness. Fill up the team with Wasim (makes me cry to leave out Pollock... I think he was a better bat, bowler and fielder than Wasim, but I want the variety in this lineup).

If Lara, leave out Wasim and play 2 guys with a claim to being bowling ARs in ODIs. Pollock + ??? for me.

 

[honestbharani]

If Jaya, I think there is no option but to play Klusener at 7. He is probably the best number 7 in a batting lineup this strong, excluding the players already picked, and the only one who can balance the team with bowling. Leaves the bowling a bit weak, but playing proper bowlers is too much batting weakness. Fill up the team with Wasim (makes me cry to leave out Pollock... I think he was a better bat, bowler and fielder than Wasim, but I want the variety in this lineup).

If Lara, leave out Wasim and play 2 guys with a claim to being bowling ARs in ODIs. Pollock + ??? for me.

I will play Klusener, Pollock, Wasim, Murali, Bond/Waqar/Lee...

 

[Bolo.]

I will play Klusener, Pollock, Wasim, Murali, Bond/Waqar/Lee...

Only 2 bowling slots left in this team, got to cull some of them.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Lara.

 

[honestbharani]

Only 2 bowling slots left in this team, got to cull some of them.

No, I am saying what my 7-11 would be. The last slot is a toss-up between those 3.

 

[subshakerz]

I am not gonna comment on the bowling point because he could be useful at least in SC, but I don't think you are ending up with an unreliable batsman who scores super fast in this scenario - you are ending up with an unreliable batsman who scores at maybe an above average pace.

I concede that as a possibility but to me his instructions would be to just play his game and if the conditions and luck are right he cashes in, if not he gets out early.

 

[subshakerz]

Klusener Pollock at 7-8 is totally fine for the ATG side IMO.

A bit of sameness to the attack tho