Is this the second biggest choke in WC history?

[ankitj]

Oh look what I found.

Severely disappointed at Pollock being at 9 itbt. For me definitely the greatest of them all.(Maybe close with Viv, but still top 2 at worst)

I really should have voted.

Great work again NUFAN!

@Teja. do you still hold this view?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Do you think there were more than 15 great white ball cricketers as of 2011? Because CW claimed Kallis was top 15 ODI cricketer.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/thr...time-the-countdown.49333/page-18#post-2459368

Guess I was wrong, people actually did think that

wow

 

[OverratedSanity]

Do you think there were more than 15 great white ball cricketers as of 2011? Because CW claimed Kallis was top 15 ODI cricketer.

http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/thr...time-the-countdown.49333/page-18#post-2459368

Didn't know CW used to be that stupid. He's obviously a better ODI cricketer than TJB gives him credit for but there's 10 cricketers behind him in that 2011 list that should've ranked above him even at that point in time.

 

[Xuhaib]

Even the match in the OP wasn’t a choke. In those days chasing down 290 odd even off 60 overs never happened. There were no power plays or exotic fielding restrictions. Even though they got to 170 odd with one wicket down they were never scoring quickly off Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft. It was always a situation where one wicket falling was going to make it very difficult for the new batsman to get in and score quickly. Viv and Collis King shared the 5th bowler overs. They got after Viv to an extent, but also got out in the process. They were never cruising to victory.

Most likely they rnever expected to come close to target when they started the chase and batted freely and only once they got close and realized they can win they panicked.

Looking at the line up its no surprise they folded once the partnership was broken. Haroon was a newbi, Javed was still not a great odi middle order player that he would later become. It took him couple of county seasons after this to get a hang of odis batting. Imran was still a bowler who could slog a little while Muddy never was much of an odi batsman. The only one who could be blamed is Asif Iqbal who had enough county cricket expierence to see it through. I wonder why they did not play Wasim Raja who loved facing Westindies and had great record vs them he may have ended up making the difference.

 

[ankitj]

Most likely they rnever expected to come close to target when they started the chase and batted freely and only once they got close and realized they can win they panicked

Why is that most likely? It's probably that they didn't have enough quality to carry on after freak Majid-Abbas partnership especially against that quality attack. Also the 2nd wicket partnership may have been behind required run rate.

 

[ankitj]

While exact moment when wickets fell is not given, it appears when Miandad got out, they needed 100+ runs at near run a ball. Tall ask against Garner, Holding, Roberts, Croft.

 

[Teja.]

Oh look what I found.


@Teja. do you still hold this view?

No. I was 16 and still in high school and definitely had too much confidence in my definitelies, even the bad ones.

That post was a literal universe ago haha. I am now 28 and have the opposite problem of not bothering to post on most issues because I don’t really agree with the thread options and have to post some painfully nuanced 2000 word essay replying to topics like ‘Bread v Toast’ because I just can’t help myself.

Please leave me alone and just dig up throwing stuff by @Prince EWS around that age again. Evergreen banger.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Tall ask against Garner

Very tall

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Please leave me alone and just dig up throwing stuff by @Prince EWS around that age again. Evergreen banger.

Just FYI we dig up I'm Confused instead now.

 

[ankitj]

No. I was 16 and still in high school and definitely had too much confidence in my definitelies, even the bad ones.

That post was a literal universe ago haha. I am now 28 and have the opposite problem of not bothering to post on most issues because I don’t really agree with the thread options and have to post some painfully nuanced 2000 word essay replying to topics like ‘Bread v Toast’ because I just can’t help myself.

Please leave me alone and just dig up throwing stuff by @Prince EWS around that age again. Evergreen banger.

The Internet remembers. LoL.

Much wiser than me at 16.

 

[Daemon]

Don’t worry, we still have cnerd posting embarrassing **** and he’s like 30

 

[TheJediBrah]

Didn't know CW used to be that stupid. He's obviously a better ODI cricketer than TJB gives him credit for but there's 10 cricketers behind him in that 2011 list that should've ranked above him even at that point in time.

He'll only get better in time, as more and more people that never actually saw him play begin to rate him based on averages and man of the match awards and aggregates. Classic revisionism.

By 2045 people will be calling Kallis the greatest ODI cricketer of all time based on stats, never having seen him single-handedly lose a game for SA that they should have cantered to a win in.

 

[ankitj]

He'll only get better in time, as more and more people that never actually saw him play begin to rate him based on averages and man of the match awards and aggregates. Classic revisionism.

You nuts? What is this **** posting? For one, his stocks are falling with time because he was voted #15 in 2011 and few years later in another exercise he was outside of top 30 iirc. So "revisionism" is marking him down. And ones doing this are those who never saw him play look at his SR or some isolated games, infer he would suck if he played today and decide he sucked when he played too. MoM awards show how good he was and everyone one should include that in their analysis.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You nuts? What is this **** posting? For one, his stocks are falling with time because he was voted #15 in 2011 and few years later in another exercise he was outside of top 30 iirc. So "revisionism" is marking him down. And ones doing this are those who never see him play and look at his SR, infer he would have sucked if he played today and decide he sucked when he played too.

Bro it's literally the opposite

I can only assume him being "voted #15 in 2011" is an anomaly and everyone was on mushrooms for a week

 

[ankitj]

BS. Stop embarrassing yourself now.

 

[TheJediBrah]

You know mine is not a minority opinion right? Sure I pretend he was a lot worse than he was, but I'm not some lone ranger here. He was not a great ODI cricketer.

And I guarantee you he will be rated higher in the future when people who experienced his masterful, consistently match-losing ODI batting start getting outnumbered by those who judge based purely on career average and MOM awards

 

[TheJediBrah]

look at his SR or some isolated games, infer he would suck if he played today and decide he sucked when he played too

oh and this is bull****. I hate when people do that too. You can do it with most 90s cricketers and it's not an accurate representation.

But no one "hating" on Kallis is doing that. It's based on how he batted on a match-to-match basis. He was like the anti-Bevan, the anti-Dhoni.

Bevan had an ordinary-looking career strike rate by modern standards as well but no one is going to tell you that he lost matches by batting too slowly

 

[ankitj]

oh and this is bull****. I hate when people do that too. You can do it with most 90s cricketers and it's not an accurate representation.

But no one "hating" on Kallis is doing that. It's based on how he batted on a match-to-match basis. He was like the anti-Bevan, the anti-Dhoni.

Bevan had an ordinary-looking career strike rate by modern standards as well but no one is going to tell you that he lost matches by batting too slowly

Bevan's stocks are falling down too. So are of likes of Greg Chappell (I have been trying to revive Abbas' case with some help from others) and no one mentions Greenidge among great ODI batsmen at all apart from me and @Prince EWS . So no, the trend is consistent that older players (batsmen more specifically) are getting retrospectively downgraded in ODI cricket.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bevan's stocks are falling down too. So are of likes of Greg Chappell (I have been trying to revive Abbas' case with some help from others) and no one mentions Greenidge among great ODI batsmen at all apart from me and @Prince EWS . So no, the trend is consistent that older players (batsmen more specifically) are getting retrospectively downgraded in ODI cricket.

Yeah fair enough but Kallis isn't quite in the same category. He played enough in the post 2003-ish batathon era to beef up his record whereas these other guys didn't.

 

[cnerd123]

BS. Stop embarrassing yourself now.

Tall ask for TJB