Dale Steyn vs Imran khan

[Kirkut]

Ramiz Raja told in an interview that they hated bowling with the new ball and worked hard to get reverse swing as quickly as possible, so Pak fielders had the responsibility to maintain roughness on one side of the ball all the time. Imran was probably more incisive on slow rough wickets since he rarely relied on bounce, just loved pitching it up and attacking the stumps.

 

[Slifer]

Ok i think this Ambrose thing is being blown out of proportion. In his long career unless I'm mistaken, Ambrose averaged 30+ in a series literally a handful of times. Therefore him being taken apart flat wicket or not was very few and far between.

 

[smash84]

It’s like how the difference between a bowling average of 22 and a bowling average of 26 is only 4 runs. Over an entire career, that’s a big difference.

No, If a bowler averaging 26 were to bowl out a team, it would cost 260 runs.

A bowler doing the same with an average of 22 would bowl them out at 220. That's huge.

Average is a function of economy rate and strike rate. You can strike slightly slower and have less economy rate, and still have a lower average.

 

[smash84]

Strike rates of similar-level bowlers don't vary as much you think. A difference of 6 balls is pretty big

The difference in career strike rates of Steyn and McGrath is 10 deliveries.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The difference in career strike rates of Steyn and McGrath is 10 deliveries.

You're comparing 2 extremes there, that kind of difference is rare

 

[ankitj]

Ambrose has a great record at Antigua and the Oval in England, both generally batting paradises. Wish he played in Asia more though.

Genuine question. Is there any ATG player who struggled in England? Pretty much any great player from last 40-50 years bullied the English. Ponting and Kallis have okish and not great records there iirc but nothing as bad as Warne & Murali in India.

 

[Prince EWS]

Genuine question. Is there any ATG player who struggled in England? Pretty much any great player from last 40-50 years bullied the English. Ponting and Kallis have okish and but great records there iirc but nothing as bad as Warne & Murali in India.

Doug Walters.

 

[Slifer]

Genuine question. Is there any ATG player who struggled in England? Pretty much any great player from last 40-50 years bullied the English. Ponting and Kallis have okish and but great records there iirc but nothing as bad as Warne & Murali in India.

Wouldn't say he struggled but Steyn was ok in England imo.

 

[ZK$]

Average is a function of economy rate and strike rate. You can strike slightly slower and have less economy rate, and still have a lower average.

In real life, you want your team’s best bowlers to obtain a low average through a low strike rate, not a low economy rate.

 

[Prince EWS]

In real life, you want your team’s best bowlers to obtain a low average through a low strike rate, not a low economy rate.

Yeah but you also want your team's worst bowlers to do the opposite.

 

[smash84]

In real life, you want your team’s best bowlers to obtain a low average through a low strike rate, not a low economy rate.

In real life a 6 ball difference in SR is not that huge. There are 360 deliveries in a match. A 6 ball difference in taking wickets isn't much, especially if you're doing it significantly cheaply.

 

[smash84]

You're comparing 2 extremes there, that kind of difference is rare

My point was that 6 ba difference is not huge in the context of a match. McGrath and Steyn have a 10 delivery difference in strike rate and yet both were incredible match winners.

 

[ZK$]

Yeah but you also want your team's worst bowlers to do the opposite.

Yeah, that’s a good point. Most of these fast bowlers in the top 15 of all time were their team’s best bowler or second best bowler though.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah, that’s a good point. Most of these fast bowlers in the top 15 of all time were their team’s best bowler or second best bowler though.

You still have to play against them though . . . you'd much rather face Steyn having a bad day going at 4-5rpo then Ambrose having a bad day going at 2.5rpo

 

[Kirkut]

Wouldn't say he struggled but Steyn was ok in England imo.

Could be the Duke ball, sometimes the type of ball might not suit specific bowlers.

 

[ZK$]

You still have to play against them though . . . you'd much rather face Steyn having a bad day going at 4-5rpo then Ambrose having a bad day going at 2.5rpo

I’m not really arguing for Steyn over Ambrose tbh. I was just explaining why Ambrose didn’t really have as much impact as his average suggests he did during his last 5 years.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I’m not really arguing for Steyn over Ambrose tbh. I was just explaining why Ambrose didn’t really have as much impact as his average suggests he did during his last 5 years.

You're right in that Ambrose can still average 20 but not be as effective, because the batsmen can play him out and score at the other end so even though his average is the same, he's not as dangerous in the context of the game.

I don't agree with the umbrella statement that (average being equal) you want a bowler with a higher strike rate over one with a lower economy. It depends on a lot of factors and the high strike-rate bowler comes with downsides to go with the wicket-taking

 

[subshakerz]

Genuine question. Is there any ATG player who struggled in England? Pretty much any great player from last 40-50 years bullied the English. Ponting and Kallis have okish and not great records there iirc but nothing as bad as Warne & Murali in India.

Kallis was actually subpar in England while Ponting and Gavaskar were ok.

 

[Bolo.]

Could be the Duke ball, sometimes the type of ball might not suit specific bowlers.

He definitely didn't like the duke. Not suited to the the kind of nibble movement that works best in England (which is partly the duke).

Not as bad as his stats suggest though. Played in England at the only times they have had powerhouse batting in decades, and on some serious roads. Best bowler by far in 2012 when peak Philander and Jimmy were playing (who were suited). Took 7 wickets in one of his other 2 matches.

You would expect a bunch of other top bowlers to have done better than him in his circumstances, but not by the extent that bullying 90s England bats on 90s pitches would suggest.

 

[Calm_profit]

He definitely didn't like the duke. Not suited to the the kind of nibble movement that works best in England (which is partly the duke).

Not as bad as his stats suggest though. Played in England at the only times they have had powerhouse batting in decades, and on some serious roads. Best bowler by far in 2012 when peak Philander and Jimmy were playing (who were suited). Took 7 wickets in one of his other 2 matches.

You would expect a bunch of other top bowlers to have done better than him in his circumstances, but not by the extent that bullying 90s England bats on 90s pitches would suggest.

He got injured in 2008 series and in that series the wickets were more flatter than in 2012.