Where does longevity kick in for you? Rank these bowlers

[Flem274*]

Following from the yarn in the other thread the other day (cheers harsh and trundler), I'm curious where longevity rankings kick in for you guys who value it more than me (most of the forum, except for those who have seen the light of the holy "Who would a real selector pick?"* sorting system).

I remember some dude a while back using 200 wickets as a hard cutoff for him, and fair enough. PEWS has a spreadsheet RIP cpl but I reckon most of us are a bit more arbitrary and/or blatantly biased.

So, here are some bowlers to rank. This isn't to nitpick your choices but to learn where the changeover broadly happens for the average fan. Will you pick Southee over Bond or Harris like Harsh? Where does the ATG perfectly fine bowler (Siddle) rank? The pure longevity of Chris Martin? Anderson and Kapil basically here as the opposite extreme to Procter. If someone can find me a 50+ test, 40+ averaging pace bowler (Powell only 37 tests smh), that would be swell.

Mike Procter - 7 tests, 41 @ 15
Jack Cowie - 9 tests, 45 @ 21
Frank Tyson - 17 tests, 76 @ 18
Shane Bond - 18 tests, 87 @ 22
Ryan Harris - 27 tests, 113 @ 23
Jasprit Bumrah - 30 tests, 128 @ 21
Shoiab Akhtar - 46 tests, 178 @ 25
Umar Gul - 47 tests, 163 @ 34
Fidel Edwards - 55 tests, 165 @ 37
Peter Siddle - 67 tests, 221 @ 30
Chris Martin - 71 tests, 233 @ 33
Brett Lee - 76 tests, 310 @ 30
Tim Southee - 88 tests, 347 @ 28
Kapil Dev - 131 tests, 434 @ 29
James Anderson - 175 tests, 667 @ 26

*i know real australian selectors pick siddle even if mcgrath was around probs.

 

[TheJediBrah]

This is new and exciting

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Anderson>Akhtar>Bumrah>Dev>Southee>Harris>Lee>Bond>Tyson>Siddle>Martin>Gul>Edwards

Can't rate Procter and Cowie too small a sample size

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Anderson>Akhtar>Bumrah>Dev>Southee>Harris>Lee>Bond

Can't rate Procter too small a sampl size

I thought you were just putting them in alphabetical order when I started reading (although Akhtar comes before Anderson).

 

[Line and Length]

My top three are miles apart in longevity - Tyson, Proctor and Anderson

 

[Adorable Asshole]

My top three are miles apart in longevity - Tyson, Proctor and Anderson

How is Tyson better than Bond?

Had a worse WPM, played in the most bowling friendly era since WW1 vs Bond played in one of the most batsman friendly era and had a way shorter career compared to Bond.

 

[Migara]

Probably Bumrah is the best out of the lot followed by Akthar. If you want me to pick three seamers for a side out of the lot, I will pick Anderson, whom will bowl for me over after over, Bumrah, who will bring some different release points, and Akthar, a man to bring mayhem. If a fourth is needed it would be Proctor over Kapil.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Top 3

1 Tyson
2 Shoaib
3 Cowie

Not sure about the ones in the middle. Too hard to rank. Not much between Procter, Bond, Harris, Bumrah, and Anderson.

Bottom 3
11 Martin
12 Gul
13 Edwards

 

[TheJediBrah]

Bond played in one of the most batsman friendly era

This is the problem with this kind of analysis. Bond performed almost exclusively against weak sides or at home to touring Asian sides that struggled with the conditions. You can't just say he played in a batsman friendly era and conclude his stats must be reflective of that.

 

[Line and Length]

How is Tyson better than Bond?

Had a worse WPM, played in the most bowling friendly era since WW1 vs Bond played in one of the most batsman friendly era and had a way shorter career compared to Bond.

I saw Tyson and he was frightening at his peak. His 1954/55 Ashes performances included 'the fastest and most frightening sustained spell of fast bowling seen in Australia' as Tyson took 6/16 off 6.3 overs. Bond never approached that sort of performance.

 

[ataraxia]

I reckon it might just make most sense to split up AT rankings into peak skill (season-long) rankings and career rankings.

 

[Daemon]

My cutoff is 27.1 Tests. Any less and you're no good.

 

[Starfighter]

The selection of some of the bowlers doesn't make sense. Why Edwards, who was clearly well behind the others?

 

[_00_deathscar]

Anderson
Akhtar
Bumrah
Kapil

 

[BazBall21]

Quite a few on there are better bowlers than Anderson but not sure I’d rank them ahead of him in a bowling shortlist. Bumrah is obviously on his way though.

 

[BazBall21]

Peter Pollock did well in four different countries

 

[mr_mister]

The selection of some of the bowlers doesn't make sense. Why Edwards, who was clearly well behind the others?

I think to make some kind of point about how total wickets is a big thing for the longevity crowd

Kapil is being held up above a lot of far lower averaging bowlers recently and the amount of test wickets he took is a factor

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I think to make some kind of point about how total wickets is a big thing for the longevity crowd

Kapil is being held up above a lot of far lower averaging bowlers recently and the amount of test wickets he took is a factor

I don't understand the CW hate boner for Kapil Dev. Yeah he is not the best but nobody says he is the best.

 

[mr_mister]

I don't understand the CW hate boner for Kapil Dev. Yeah he is not the best but nobody says he is the best.

I don't hate him, but the other week someone was essentially saying he was the true quality of a 34 average bat and 26 average bowler and then continued arguing as if they were his actual stats

People do a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away his rather bang average career total averages

It's like some desperately want him to be considered an ATG then work backwards from there justifying it

 

[trundler]

Anderson > Southee > Akhtar = Bumrah > Kapil > Siddle = Lee > Martin > Gul


Feels right instinctively. The others didn't play enough.

I don't hate him, but the other week someone was essentially saying he was the true quality of a 34 average bat and 26 average bowler and then continued arguing as if they were his actual stats

PFK doesn't help himself with his outlandish posting but lots of cricketers are considered better than their raw stats. Kapil is basically Cairns without the fragility. That's a bonafide ATG.