Test Fast Bowlers With Long Run-Ups

[Starfighter]

John Price used to run in from very wide mid-off, but I don't think he ever toured Australia. If memory serves, he may have played a test against you in 1972, but that was before your time wasn't it?

This from cricinfo:
John Price was a solidly-built right-arm fast bowler with a distinctive angled approach to the wicket and an exceptionally long run-up.

Pretty sure one of the reasons he did it was to sneak around the Sunday League 15-yard runup limit - he'd run along the line. Funny thing is that he had the curved run in '64 against Australia but when he toured SA in 54/65 he used a straight one.

If Burgey's memory is from highlights could be who he was thinking of.

For those interested, hard discerning what's up with the skip near the start, but it appears to be 30-31 steps long.

 

[the big bambino]

In 70/71 yes, but after that series he adopted a straight run after seeing Snow's success with it (here's him in 1971). Not sure even Burgey is going to remember such as a detail from when he was less than two.

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Ken Shuttleworth, who played in the same series, also bowled off a huge and more dramatically curved run.

I remember Shuttleworth. He looked quick too. Peter Lever only played 2 of the 6 tests in 74/75 and had outstanding success in the last on a green Melbourne pitch. I only recall Walker's efforts in that game and didn't see Lever's first innings wickets (I was most likely in school).

There was another Lever at the time; JK of Essex. A left armer he did have a long curvish run. As a lefty he would have run in from Mid on. Whom I see you've mentioned. Having checked English seamers of the 70s in statsguru he seems the most likely.

 

[Burgey]

Bam! I think it’s Shuttleworth I was thinking of. Cheers guys.

 

[Starfighter]

Funny that it'd be Shuttleworth. I suppose there was chance 70/71 highlights were played while the game was still on ABC.

Must say his career sounds very much like one of unfulfilled potential, a bit like another user of a sharply curved run, albeit of more modest length - Alan Ward.

 

[the big bambino]

According to his wiki page he constantly messed with his technique and had a series of injuries.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

At one point Shuttleworth was the only Englishman to have scored runs and taken a wicket in ODI’s.

 

[social]

If it's the 70s then you're right the first time with Peter Lever. Bowled on a curve from mid off direction much the same as Dilley. As for their pace I think Dilley was a lot quicker than what's been said here. Had a good out swinger and a pretty good series in 86/87. Lever was swift. He was the one who felled and almost killed Ewan Chatfield in the latter's debut test. Kerry O'Keefe (who, unlike Chatfield, could bat) remembers being hit by a Lever short ball and described it like being knifed.

Dilley was very quick when he started out

Like McDermott & Jimmy, he became a much better bowler when he slowed down a bit and swung it

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Reon King had a long ass run-up

 

[wpdavid]

At one point Shuttleworth was the only Englishman to have scored runs and taken a wicket in ODI’s.

For about 30 minutes or so?

AUS vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, Only ODI at Melbourne, January 05, 1971

Get cricket scorecard of Only ODI, AUS vs ENG, England [Marylebone Cricket Club] tour of Australia 1970/71 at Melbourne Cricket Ground dated January 05, 1971.

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Lillian Thomson]

For about 30 minutes or so?

AUS vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, Only ODI at Melbourne, January 05, 1971

Get cricket scorecard of Only ODI, AUS vs ENG, England [Marylebone Cricket Club] tour of Australia 1970/71 at Melbourne Cricket Ground dated January 05, 1971.

www.espncricinfo.com

Of course it wasn't a record that was likely to be long standing, but he'll always be the first Englishman forever.

 

[Starfighter]

Looks like Keith Fatpole was the first person though, thanks to his surprisingly effective leg spin.

One striking thing about that match is how much quicker the English fast bowlers were than the Australians. Connolly, Froggy Thomson and an over-the-hill at 28 McKenzie weren't likely to strike terror into too many teams. They did still win though.

Also that match, together with some of the stuff against WI in '75 and WSC makes me think that the reason why Snow didn't average quite as good as he could have was that his one o'clock arm position made him spray the ball a little when not in peak rhythm.

 

[wpdavid]

Looks like Keith Fatpole was the first person though, thanks to his surprisingly effective leg spin.

One striking thing about that match is how much quicker the English fast bowlers were than the Australians. Connolly, Froggy Thomson and an over-the-hill at 28 McKenzie weren't likely to strike terror into too many teams. They did still win though.

Also that match, together with some of the stuff against WI in '75 and WSC makes me think that the reason why Snow didn't average quite as good as he could have was that his one o'clock arm position made him spray the ball a little when not in peak rhythm.

I also think the Aus batsmen were just more attacking than their English counterparts too. That was certainly my impression when they toured 18 months later.

 

[Starfighter]

I also think the Aus batsmen were just more attacking than their English counterparts too. That was certainly my impression when they toured 18 months later.

I think batting second probably conferred a big advantage. The amazing thing about the English perhaps not being as attacking is they had played a lot more limited overs cricket at the time. Old habits die hard I suppose.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

That match was 40 8 ball overs. Probably confused the hell out of everyone.

 

[the big bambino]

Looks like Keith Fatpole was the first person though, thanks to his surprisingly effective leg spin.

One striking thing about that match is how much quicker the English fast bowlers were than the Australians. Connolly, Froggy Thomson and an over-the-hill at 28 McKenzie weren't likely to strike terror into too many teams. They did still win though.

Also that match, together with some of the stuff against WI in '75 and WSC makes me think that the reason why Snow didn't average quite as good as he could have was that his one o'clock arm position made him spray the ball a little when not in peak rhythm.

I first saw McKenzie in that series and thought he couldn't bowl. I didn't think much of Lawry either ... Wasn't until much later I found out what a good bowler he was. I don't think he was over the hill. Recent to the ashes he had a great series against the WI then India. Ian Chappell has plenty of criticism about that India tour and the subsequent imposition of a SA series straight after and I think that tour broke McKenzie and possibly his health. It affected his bowling in SA and the Ashes.

I wondered why he retired from tests so young and just assumed he had to make a choice between cricket and his livelihood. In a way he did. He became a county professional, like so many Australians before, but at a cost to his test career. Once again I wonder if the feudal way he was treated by our administraitors made him resentful and he decided to monetise what was left of his career. He did say he would have loved to have toured England in 1972 and if he had recovered his health by then could have given Lillee the support to tip that Ashes our way.

 

[wpdavid]

I first saw McKenzie in that series and thought he couldn't bowl. I didn't think much of Lawry either ... Wasn't until much later I found out what a good bowler he was. I don't think he was over the hill. Recent to the ashes he had a great series against the WI then India. Ian Chappell has plenty of criticism about that India tour and the subsequent imposition of a SA series straight after and I think that tour broke McKenzie and possibly his health. It affected his bowling in SA and the Ashes.

I wondered why he retired from tests so young and just assumed he had to make a choice between cricket and his livelihood. In a way he did. He became a county professional, like so many Australians before, but at a cost to his test career. Once again I wonder if the feudal way he was treated by our administraitors made him resentful and he decided to monetise what was left of his career. He did say he would have loved to have toured England in 1972 and if he had recovered his health by then could have given Lillee the support to tip that Ashes our way.

Interesting read. He'd have only been 31 during the 1972 Ashes, and it's not unlikely that he'd have been a better bet than David Colley opening the bowling at the start of the series, especially with Greg Chappell coming on first change. Not that Colley was a disaster by any means, but McKenzie probably would have been better.

 

[Starfighter]

I first saw McKenzie in that series and thought he couldn't bowl. I didn't think much of Lawry either ... Wasn't until much later I found out what a good bowler he was. I don't think he was over the hill. Recent to the ashes he had a great series against the WI then India. Ian Chappell has plenty of criticism about that India tour and the subsequent imposition of a SA series straight after and I think that tour broke McKenzie and possibly his health. It affected his bowling in SA and the Ashes.

I wondered why he retired from tests so young and just assumed he had to make a choice between cricket and his livelihood. In a way he did. He became a county professional, like so many Australians before, but at a cost to his test career. Once again I wonder if the feudal way he was treated by our administraitors made him resentful and he decided to monetise what was left of his career. He did say he would have loved to have toured England in 1972 and if he had recovered his health by then could have given Lillee the support to tip that Ashes our way.

The general treatment of Australia cricketers around that time was pretty disgraceful. Our three most prolific bowlers of the mid-late sixties (McKenzie, Hawke and Connolly) all finished their careers with years of potential left. Heck you can say the same about Davidson and Benaud, I only just realised Benaud was only 33 when he retired.

I do think that McKenzie was already past it by 70/71, I don't think he fully regained what he lost in the SA tour. No one would ever accuse him of having a lively run, but in 70/71 and 71/72 it's distinctly more awkward and he lacks the grace and fluidity of, say, 1968. Granted, an awful hairstyle doesn't help the impression. He was still better than the likes of Colley at that point though.

 

[wpdavid]

The general treatment of Australia cricketers around that time was pretty disgraceful. Our three most prolific bowlers of the mid-late sixties (McKenzie, Hawke and Connolly) all finished their careers with years of potential left. Heck you can say the same about Davidson and Benaud, I only just realised Benaud was only 33 when he retired.

I do think that McKenzie was already past it by 70/71, I don't think he fully regained what he lost in the SA tour. No one would ever accuse him of having a lively run, but in 70/71 and 71/72 it's distinctly more awkward and he lacks the grace and fluidity of, say, 1968. Granted, an awful hairstyle doesn't help the impression. He was still better than the likes of Colley at that point though.

Isn't the treatment of Aus cricketers one of the reasons why I. Cappell stood down as early as he did? So it was on his terms. As for Colley, I think I was rather generous with my earlier assessment. 4 wickets for 150 in helpful conditions at Old Trafford was actually pretty ordinary. As you suggest, surely McKenzie would have done better, and the series looks very different.

fwiw I hadn't realised until this morning that Lord's in 1972 wasn't Massie's first appearance for Australia, despite being his official test debut. Turns out he had done really well against ROW a few months earlier.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

I read a column written (or ghost written?) by Lawry in 1970 that blamed McKenzie's poor fitness partially at least on overwork due to the fact that he was playing County cricket at the time (beginning in 68), this being the beginning of overseas players really being a thing.
As @Starfighter noted, you can find footage of him bowling from 71/72, and it's not especially inspiring, although I'm not sure the pitches were all that good for bowlers (and I concur on the shitty haircut).

I do incidentally wonder under what arrangements the Australian captain was allowed to write a press column, but it seems it was a thing. Also, I came across a book yesterday browsing through a second-hand shop, by Rod Marsh on the 82/83 Ashes. Marsh was upset by Lawry's suggesting before the series that he should retire in favour of Wayne Phillips.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

Isn't the treatment of Aus cricketers one of the reasons why I. Cappell stood down as early as he did?

What I've heard on documentaries is Ian told Greg something along the lines of 'you'll feel when it's the right time to quit.' Not the most convincing explanation (although I also note that Ian Chappell played in 75/76 under his brother's captaincy).

Allan Border, on the other hand, disagreed with the Chappells, saying he most certainly did not experience such a feeling at any point late in his career and that stepping down was very hard.