New Zealand fast bowlers who are 'definitely' better than Kapil Dev

[thierry henry]

Bond didn't really do/prove much in tests tbph, he doesn't have an overwhelming domestic red ball record to fall back on, and there's precedent for fast, pitch it up and swing it bowlers being awesome in ODI cricket and less so in tests.

Yeah I said it.

 

[honestbharani]

Bond didn't really do/prove much in tests tbph, he doesn't have an overwhelming domestic red ball record to fall back on, and there's precedent for fast, pitch it up and swing it bowlers being awesome in ODI cricket and less so in tests.

Yeah I said it.

Are you calling him an AA?

 

[mr_mister]

Just want to chime in to say h_hurricane is a solid and polite poster even during Sachin v Junior discussions (moderate upgrade)

Personally it was only sunilz I ever found to be a bit bullish. Bowls a deceptively heavy ball that lad

 

[honestbharani]

Just want to chime in to say h_hurricane is a solid and polite poster even during Sachin v Junior discussions (moderate upgrade)

Personally it was only sunilz I ever found to be a bit bullish. Bowls a deceptively heavy ball that lad

Gavaskar always said he was a big mean fast bowler at heart, tbh.

 

[SteveNZ]

not saying this to flame kiwis i promise but would bond be talked about as much if he had the exact same career arc came from a country like australia or the windies which has a history of excellent pacers? or does the what could have been factor play in a bit more due to the at the time relative lack of atg tier pacers nz had to an australia or the windies

also good to see you back @sunilz, enjoy what you bring to the forum

The hype around Bond was partly attributed to that insane VB Series that he had in 2002. As you say, we hadn't produced a pace bowler of any real substance since Hadlee and when he started knocking over peak Gilchrist for pace and poleaxing Australia in Australia - something we never did - it was always going to get us fired up. But that would fire up fans from any country. To answer your question, would he have been as talked about in the Windies around 2002 and beyond? Yep. Australia? No, probably not, although he was a significantly better bowler than anyone who wasn't Glenn McGrath.

I'd argue against words like 'mythology', talking him down and especially saying Stuart Clark was a better Test bowler, which is either very mischievous from my man TJB or flat out gormless.

He gets a * from a lot of people because of injury, and fair enough I suppose. But as Athlai said, he was much, much more than a out and out 150km paceman. He had genuine skill.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Australia? No, probably not, although he was a significantly better bowler than anyone who wasn't Glenn McGrath.

I'd argue against words like 'mythology', talking him down and especially saying Stuart Clark was a better Test bowler, which is either very mischievous from my man TJB or flat out gormless.

Stuart Clark and Jason Gillespie both have Bond well covered in Test cricket my man, I think you're judgement is clouded with this one

 

[SteveNZ]

Stuart Clark and Jason Gillespie both have Bond well covered in Test cricket my man, I think you're judgement is clouded with this one

I can see an argument for Gillespie's 259 scalps, but for Clark's at 7 more wickets than Bond at a higher average, significantly higher strike rate and less 4-fors and 5-fors in 6 more Tests, I'd like to hear?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I can see an argument for Gillespie's 259 scalps, but for Clark's at 7 more wickets than Bond at a higher average, significantly higher strike rate and less 4-fors and 5-fors in 6 more Tests, I'd like to hear?

Look at who each of Bond and Clark played against lol

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Look at who each of Bond and Clark played against lol

People talk about Bond's short test career but it went from 2001-09. Clark was only 2006-09! He was able to bowl for a 3 year peak.

 

[TheJediBrah]

People talk about Bond's short test career but it went from 2001-09. Clark was only 2006-09! He was able to bowl for a 3 year peak.

Only because he couldn't make a strong team though. If Clark is from NZ or England he plays for 10 years

 

[trundler]

We can argue about who was a better bowler based on optics until the cows come home but Clark achieved more in tests. Why are we acting like bowling averages exist in a vacuum? The good people of CW are usually more discerning than this. Clark also bowled on much tougher surfaces. Nothing like the India series Bond played.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Tbf I don't think a lot of people realise how good Clark was

 

[Flem274*]

nah we gotta give him the goobers vs bond treatment. all clark did was beat on england in australia. england in australia is basically like bangladesh or india in nz.

 

[TheJediBrah]

nah we gotta give him the goobers vs bond treatment. all clark did was beat on england in australia. england in australia is basically like bangladesh or india in nz.

Not sure if you're joking but that England batting line up was strong. Clark also destroyed SA in SA in his debut series, easily the second best team at the time.

Clark did real well against the strongest opponents, like the opposite of Bond

 

[Athlai]

Clark was pretty good. Not as good as Bond but comfortably better than Dev

 

[Flem274*]

Not sure if you're joking but that England batting line up was strong. Clark also destroyed SA in SA in his debut series, easily the second best team at the time.

Clark did real well against the strongest opponents, like the opposite of Bond

sorry all i hear is supreme australiawaaaah.

bond beat up the best team ever every time in the other format, and showed up in all his tests and handed out the pain. i've got nothing against mcgrath-at-home, he was world class, but you're not slipping him under the door alongside gillespie's name if you're gonna indulge in trundlerisms.*

facts are bond plays in the nz all time test team, dishes out the pain on everyone he plays for 2-3 tests before his first injury break, and the longevity incels will sook he still isn't as good as tim southee or something.

*statements made in an attempt to be contrarion and imitate the confidence in their own bullshit of more seasoned posters.

 

[Flem274*]

Clark was pretty good. Not as good as Bond but comfortably better than Dev

athlai making rare good posts about bowling in this thread.

 

[TheJediBrah]

sorry all i hear is supreme australiawaaaah.

bond beat up the best team ever every time in the other format, and showed up in all his tests and handed out the pain. i've got nothing against mcgrath-at-home, he was world class, but you're not slipping him under the door alongside gillespie's name if you're gonna indulge in trundlerisms.*

facts are bond plays in the nz all time test team, dishes out the pain on everyone he plays for 2-3 tests before his first injury break, and the longevity incels will sook he still isn't as good as tim southee or something.

*statements made in an attempt to be contrarion and imitate the confidence in their own bull**** of more seasoned posters.

Need to change thread title to "Delusional Kiwaaah opinions thread". And sticky it.

 

[trundler]

sorry all i hear is supreme australiawaaaah.

bond beat up the best team ever every time in the other format, and showed up in all his tests and handed out the pain. i've got nothing against mcgrath-at-home, he was world class, but you're not slipping him under the door alongside gillespie's name if you're gonna indulge in trundlerisms.*

facts are bond plays in the nz all time test team, dishes out the pain on everyone he plays for 2-3 tests before his first injury break, and the longevity incels will sook he still isn't as good as tim southee or something.

*statements made in an attempt to be contrarion and imitate the confidence in their own bull**** of more seasoned posters.

Mate I don't know what to tell you. I'm over here defending an Indian medium pacer. The most egregiously lollmao assertion in this thread was grouping Bond with Akhtar and Bishop. There's no point trying to reason with you on this since you actually believe the 02/03 series against India didn't have atrocious pitches. The guy did zilch outside NZ and bashed up WI at home ffs. I rate players on what they actually did. I'm not even entertaining the farcical idea that Bond was better than Dev. He did less in tests even compared to Ryan Harris, Neil Adcock, Frank Tyson or Stuart Clark. Fact. If you want to rate Shane Bond the ODI bowler as an ATG then I'm with you.

 

[Flem274*]

Need to change thread title to "Delusional Kiwaaah opinions thread". And sticky it.

you can accuse pilch of being delusional all you like but he's probably the calmest cricket chat poster around. the man is a master of his craft.

in fact, i think he is the GOAT of cricket chat wind ups. you can't even call him a troll, there's no malice, he just thinks it's funny and has a very straight face. he comes home with a chilly bin full of fish every time.