Viv Richards vs Sachin Tendulkar

[anil1405]

Hadlee rarely got him out even in the series where he averaged 19 , meanwhile he averaged 71.6 against Prime Botham , same Prime Botham took 215 wickets at 21.75 at 49

Yet he sucked against NZ.

 

[Johan]

Yet he sucked against NZ.

Circlular reasoning.

 

[Chrish]

so basically the Critisicm against Viv for you is that he didn't Pile on runs on side missing their best bowler but if he did they would count as soft runs no?

You can’t just nit pick stats to highlight strength of one player while pretending that there are no flaws in his record.

 

[Chrish]

Anyways, Viv for me because he scored quicker and thus was more exciting. His SR of 70 sets him apart.

 

[Johan]

You can’t just nit pick stats to highlight strength of one player while pretending that there are no flaws in his record.

I didn't claim Viv is Bradman so ofcourse there are flaws , but he is in general better then his numbers would show and SRT's record is no less flawed then Viv's.

 

[Chrish]

Bradman also had flaws. No one pretends that SRT’s record was perfect.

 

[Johan]

Bradman's record is probably as close to perfect as a Batsmen could possibly be , and my point by that statement was that runs against first rate attacks > second rate attacks and even that in early career , so while Viv's record does have flaws against pakistan those are overshadowed by high highs against the same nation but with a far superior attack.

 

[trundler]

SRT's record is definitely less flawed if you look at it fairly. You have to jump through hoops and invoke subjective hogwash like swagger and dominance to prop up lower averages across the board. While we're at it Tendulkar had the pressure of a billion people and carried his team. I find the curly hair quiete charming and think chewing gum is lame therefore Tendulkar stomps on Viv.

 

[Chrish]

No one stomps on Viv. He was a genius once in generations player.

 

[Johan]

Tendulkar was a lone warrior for two years ( 94-95 ) before Ganguly and Dravid arrived and even in that time period Azharrudin and Sidhu weren't the worst Batsmen to be around , at the end of the day many are just gonna choose the Batsmen on the basis of what they saw over the cold numbers and Viv's personality and aggressive batsmenship is gonna definitely attract people over the numbers , same reason Andy Roberts is so well regarded with nearly 26 bowling average.

The Thread is def not a stomp though , even though I've been defending Viv I recongnize SRT as the superior player of spin bowling and top 10 Batsmen of all time.

 

[anil1405]

If this poll was about who'd you pay to watch then Viv wins this hands down but in terms of the overall output Wisden ratings sum up my opinion i.e. Viv better than Sachin by tiniest of margins in ODIs while Sachin better than Viv by a slightly bigger margin in tests.

 

[Migara]

what are Sachin's stats against the two Ws and Mcgrath?

Did he play much against Wasim and Waqar?

 

[Johan]

7

Did he play much against Wasim and Waqar?

7 innings against waqar , 12 against Wasim.

 

[Gob]

Interesting discussion regarding their batting against pace bowlers. Did a search on their respective performances against teams which had at least one ATG/ATG level pacer in the opposition team and came up with these

Sachin


Viv


Flawed method obviously but still worth a look. Should have added Willis perhaps. Similar number of games over all with the criteria placed but Viv faced few less ATG or bowlers who maintained that level for long.

Interesting

 

[BazBall21]

No they wouldn't but once a player falls below 50 they do tend to be viewed as not reaching an ATG threshold and a lesser player.

The difference then between a 47 and 52 average is more significant than a 52 and 57 difference.

Yeah average disparities probably grow more significant the lower down you go.

 

[Johan]

Interesting discussion regarding their batting against pace bowlers. Did a search on their respective performances against teams which had at least one ATG/ATG level pacer in the opposition team and came up with these

Sachin
View attachment 33064

Viv
View attachment 33066

Flawed method obviously but still worth a look. Should have added Willis perhaps. Similar number of games over all with the criteria placed but Viv faced few less ATG or bowlers who maintained that level for long.

Interesting

what are them with spinners such as Warne/Murali/Swann/Saqlain/Mushtaq/Macgill for sachin and include Bedi/Prasanna/Chandra/Iqbal/Qadir/Underwood for viv? Assuming it would become a lot closer

 

[Slifer]

Might I also add that Viv never faced his own attack or any as strong as his own but that's evened out by the fact that he never faced teams as poor as Zimbabwe and Bangladesh either.

 

[srbhkshk]

Might I also add that Viv never faced his own attack or any as strong as his own but that's evened out by the fact that he never faced teams as poor as Zimbabwe and Bangladesh either.

It's not evened out at all because the question is not about 3-4 extra points of batting average, the question is about whether Viv faced strong well rounded pace (+ maybe spin) attacks as often as Sachin or not - which wouldn't be a question at all if he had faced the WI attack.

 

[Chrish]

Sachin averaged 30s “in games involving” two Ws but was actually dismissed only once by each.

Stats without context aren’t very useful.

 

[Gob]

Sachin averaged 30s “in games involving” two Ws but was actually dismissed only once by each.

Stats without context aren’t very useful.

True but that being said, the presence of those two could have contributed to his downfall for a lesser bowler because he may have struggled to get those two away so he may have tried to cash in harder against a lesser bowler a bit more due to the pressure.

I'm not saying this is the case here cos I honestly didn't watch any of those games but how often have we seen a bowler work some one out and put him off of his game only for some one else far less threatening to get them. Pressure build in an over all great attack can not be underestimated